Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-22-2020, 03:58 PM   #1
Member
 
City: Montrťal
Country: Montreal
Vessel Name: Beau Sejour
Vessel Model: Bayliner 4550 1988
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 7
Paint or gelcoat

Hi,
I own a Bayliner 4550 1988 and my gelcoat is pretty chalky.
Iím hesitant between regelcoat or paintIng it with kind of Alwgrip.
Iím looking to do the entire boat above water and stay in white.
Any advise?
__________________
Advertisement

Beau Sejour is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2020, 04:23 PM   #2
Guru
 
Ken E.'s Avatar
 
City: Bellingham WA
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Hatt Trick
Vessel Model: 45' Hatteras Convertible
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,367
I can't speak to gelcoat, but I repainted with Alexseal, a polyurethane paint similar to Awlgrip, and got a good result with it. Bear in mind that surface preparation is more important than the brand of paint you might use and that's where the bulk of the labor hours, and cost, will be.
__________________

__________________
Ken on Hatt Trick
Ken E. is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2020, 04:38 PM   #3
Guru
 
mvweebles's Avatar
 
City: Saint Petersburg
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Weebles
Vessel Model: 1970 Willard 36 Trawler
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,498
I asked the same question to the forum several months ago. Steve D'Antonio was kind enough to chime in along the way. In the end, I firmly decided on paint vs gelcoat. My understanding is that gelcoat, being porous, is more problematic. It is intended for use within a mold with fiberglass against it. Painting it on is not as effective.

But here's the thread - you may find some interesting tidbits.

https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/...oat-48035.html

EDIT: Post #34 in the attached thread is from Larry M, a KK42 owner who has consistently posted what I consider knowledgeable and helpful information. He had painted some of his boat, gelcoated other parts:
Fast forward 7 years. I wish we had painted the entire boat. The gelcoat was more expensive to do since it is more labor intensive. Itís harder to keep up and imho harder to repair. We also have a few areas where the application was thin or the crew removed to much while finishing. As far as the standing water, yes that can be an issue but then again we havenít had the 75-100Ē of rain we saw while we were in Central America. The gelcoat still looks good but it's hard to beat modern paints.
Best success in whatever decision you make!

Peter
__________________
M/V Weebles
1970 Willard 36 Sedan Trawler
Current Location: Ensenada MX
mvweebles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2020, 05:08 PM   #4
Guru
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Country: US
Vessel Name: Never Say Never
Vessel Model: President 41 DC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 9,409
Are you going to DIY it or hire it done? Alexseal has some great reviews. Boat Works Today has some good videos on it.
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you arenít one, there is no explanation possible.
Comodave is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2020, 08:31 PM   #5
Member
 
City: Montrťal
Country: Montreal
Vessel Name: Beau Sejour
Vessel Model: Bayliner 4550 1988
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 7
Thank you all for your quick replies and sorry for the typo. I’m a French speaker..
It seems to be a tuff decision without any black and white zone.
I’m planning to keep the boat for more than 10Y and at +- the same price I’m still jongeling.
I saw previously all the videos from Boat Works and other from painters.
I see more tendency to go to paint .
I will use my local fibreglass/ gelcoat technician who already did few well done job on my boat.
He strongly suggests paint for the glossy finish and lesswork after to maintain.
But after 10Y????
This where I’m blocking...
Beau Sejour is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2020, 08:34 PM   #6
Veteran Member
 
City: Belhaven
Country: NC
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 35
Cross link urethanes like Awlgrip or Imron etc are generally good for ten years max. Alexseal is a less toxic ( non isocyanate ) plastic coating but itís longevity has yet to be confirmed. Either way dings scratches and abrasion accidents are impossible and or difficult to patch. Imron being the only of these coating systems that can be compounded and blended though results are iffy. In fact most customers are never happy with patches, blending etc. A good Awlgrip job will include roughly 6-8 mils of primer and 6-8 mile of topcoat in the best jobs and more primer and fairing with rougher topsides. Most painters short cut the primer/undercoat.

A decent gel coat Job will be between 16-25 mills or more and can be compounded buffed and waxed for thirty-five to forty years quite easily. Just go out and look at well maintained production FG boats built in the 80ís . Gel coat is a no brainer if you can find a good gel man to spray it, compound it and wax it.
garbler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2020, 08:38 PM   #7
Guru
 
mvweebles's Avatar
 
City: Saint Petersburg
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Weebles
Vessel Model: 1970 Willard 36 Trawler
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,498
If it helps, a French couple aboard an Amel sailboat lived in same marina as I did. Nice couple - both teachers at the French School in San Francisco.

They painted their Amel sailboat over the course of a summer using one part Brightsides paint. I bumped into them last summer 15 years after they had painted the boat. It still looked great. And that's a DIY job with one part paint (granted, they were meticulous about prep).

Gelcoat oxidizes pretty rapidly, probably faster than paint. For me, price to paint vs gelcoat would have been the same. I chose paint.

Peter
__________________
M/V Weebles
1970 Willard 36 Sedan Trawler
Current Location: Ensenada MX
mvweebles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2020, 08:44 PM   #8
Guru
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Country: US
Vessel Name: Never Say Never
Vessel Model: President 41 DC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 9,409
Remember the OP is in Montreal so his boat will likely be inside half the year. So getting a 2 part paint to last 10 years is not that hard. Also at the latitude the sun isnít as fierce as say Florida.
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you arenít one, there is no explanation possible.
Comodave is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2020, 08:45 PM   #9
Guru
 
mvweebles's Avatar
 
City: Saint Petersburg
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Weebles
Vessel Model: 1970 Willard 36 Trawler
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,498
Quote:
Originally Posted by garbler View Post
Cross link urethanes like Awlgrip or Imron etc are generally good for ten years max. Alexseal is a less toxic ( non isocyanate ) plastic coating but itís longevity has yet to be confirmed. Either way dings scratches and abrasion accidents are impossible and or difficult to patch. Imron being the only of these coating systems that can be compounded and blended though results are iffy. In fact most customers are never happy with patches, blending etc. A good Awlgrip job will include roughly 6-8 mils of primer and 6-8 mile of topcoat in the best jobs and more primer and fairing with rougher topsides. Most painters short cut the primer/undercoat.

A decent gel coat Job will be between 16-25 mills or more and can be compounded buffed and waxed for thirty-five to forty years quite easily. Just go out and look at well maintained production FG boats built in the 80ís . Gel coat is a no brainer if you can find a good gel man to spray it, compound it and wax it.
"10 years max" on LPU has not been my experience. Hatteras boats are painted right out of the factory. They look better for longer than gelcoat boats of similar quality and vintage. I've owned my 1970 California built boat since 1998. Even in San Francisco's mild climate the gelcoat was shot beyond buff and wax.

I simply do not agree with this post. All I can say is that when time came to put money down - and gelcoat was same price as paint, I went with paint based strongly on recommendation of Steve D'Antonio who ran the yard at Zimmerman Marine for years before hanging out his own shingle. He is one of the most trusted and respected experts in the industry. He did not hesitate in his strong recommendation for LPU.

Peter
__________________
M/V Weebles
1970 Willard 36 Sedan Trawler
Current Location: Ensenada MX
mvweebles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2020, 08:52 PM   #10
DDW
Guru
 
City: San Francisco
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,324
Gel coat is thicker so you can buff it and wax it, buff it and wax it, buff it and wax it - you get the idea. Every 6 months or so. Awlgrip for other good 2 part paints will look good for 10 years up north with no care at all. Then you can buff it and wax it about twice, then repaint. Over a 20 year period, it isn't clear which is less work, if you want it to look nice. Some work every 6 months or a lot of work every 10 years.
DDW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2020, 09:29 PM   #11
Hospitality Officer
 
Andy G's Avatar
 
City: Pittwater
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Sarawana
Vessel Model: IG 36 Quad Cabin
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,789
We have just about finished re painting our topsides. Settled on International two pack for the cabin and International single pack for the bulwark.

As we decided to do it ourselves we did not expect a top grade professional finish, and so it turned out. Though it does look pretty good, as long as you don't look too hard. This saved us about $15-17K.

This follows our general philosophy we take in looking after the boat. We want it to look good without trying to make her look brand new inside and out. We found two pack tricky to master, one pack much easier.

If this lasts us ten years I will be pleased. Given this dam Covid epidemic, and what may still eventuate, if the boat needs repainting in ten years time and I am up for it, I would be very happy to break out the roller & brushes.
Andy G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2020, 04:49 AM   #12
Guru
 
City: PNW
Country: USA
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 741
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comodave View Post
Remember the OP is in Montreal so his boat will likely be inside half the year. So getting a 2 part paint to last 10 years is not that hard. Also at the latitude the sun isn’t as fierce as say Florida.
I bought a boat that had been in Michigan since new, one owner. He kept in a slip all summer; stored it outside but covered in winter. It had been Awlgripped 20 years prior to my buying it. Still looked like it had been done yesterday; no particular maintenance on his part (normal rinsing).

I didn't own it super long, but the people I sold it to still own it. It has now been on a Chesapeake mooring nearly year around for 12 years (not as bad as Florida, but plenty of sun and nearly year around exposure, plus the lesser typical care of a moored boat - no dock hose, etc).

It has now been 33 years since it was Awlgripped. I believe the "new" owners have had it buffed (with Awlgrip this means you are to the buying-time stage as you don't normally buff it). Still looks pretty decent, IMO.

My shoulders are aching just thinking of buffing gelcoat over 33 years. (I've done it on other boats.)

--Original molded gelcoat? Sure, keep it going as long as you can (I would).

--Spot repairs? Gelcoat.

--A complete new job on an existing boat? 2-part paint all the way in my book (Awlgrip, etc)
Frosty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2020, 05:34 AM   #13
Guru
 
mvweebles's Avatar
 
City: Saint Petersburg
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Weebles
Vessel Model: 1970 Willard 36 Trawler
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,498
Frosty makes a good point about buffing and waxing gelcoat. Tendency is to think of it as trivial work. Done properly with correct tools is time consuming, detail-oriented work. Having it done professionally is expensive. A friend just had his 52 foot power cat buffed/waxed at a cost of $3500. He has it done annually. Granted this is in the Florida sun, but to say buffing and waxing is a small amount of annual work to offset a large paint project every couple decades minimizes the cost and expense involved in gelcoat maintenance.

I'll be interested to see where the OP lands. I had same choice at same price for either. I initially thought gelcoat. Decided on paint.

Peter
__________________
M/V Weebles
1970 Willard 36 Sedan Trawler
Current Location: Ensenada MX
mvweebles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2020, 05:56 AM   #14
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 20,981
If the boat will be cruised paint is the way to go , as it can more easily be refreshed.

Some days you tie up to a big commercial, some days the big boat ties up to you.

If the paint is only distressed sand prime and paint.

The easy cruisers are the many French aluminum boats , that simply buff out surface rash.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2020, 06:14 AM   #15
Guru
 
Seevee's Avatar
 
City: st pete
Country: usa
Vessel Model: 400 Mainship
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 2,485
I'd make a strong argument for paint. The poly urethanes are much better and less maintenance than the gel coat.


Now, paint is much harder to apply, and much less forgiving if you make a mistake. Also, hard to patch dings.


Question: Are there good poly urethanes that can be brushed successfully? That make it a lot easier, unless you have a paint booth and a lot of tape and paper.



And yes, hiring it done is EXPENSIVE!



I've messed with brushed on poly urethanes at times with bathroom fixtures, with mixed results. Wouldn't do it on a boat unless there is a new proven method.


With my airplanes (painted several, and one I did totally myself) the urethane paints last at LEAST 20 years, even in the sun. And the airport/flying environment isn't a lot less harsh than marine. My current plane still looks new and can be clay polished to look even better. They paint is 23 years old, poly urethane.


Same with my Formula, 15 years old when I sold it and it looked showroom. And just look at other boats that are urethane painted.



The urethane paints just LAST, if you take reasonable care of them. And if they dull over the years, they can be brought back to life.
__________________
Seevee
Seevee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2020, 05:05 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
City: San Diego, CA
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 42' Uniflite Double Cabin
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seevee View Post
Now, paint is much harder to apply, and much less forgiving if you make a mistake. Also, hard to patch dings.


Question: Are there good poly urethanes that can be brushed successfully? That make it a lot easier, unless you have a paint booth and a lot of tape and paper.

The urethane paints just LAST, if you take reasonable care of them. And if they dull over the years, they can be brought back to life.
I would not say that gel coat is easier to apply than paint. Yes it may be easier to get it on the surface, but a lot of work has to be done after application, it doesn't lay down smooth and has to be worked extensively to get to a smooth surface. Paint is the opposite, a lot of prep work prior to application but application is almost the easiest part of the job and once applied, you are done.

I'm currently painting my boat (DIY) and started with Interlux Perfection. It applies with the roll and tip method very nicely, easy to do. At this moment due to Covid it's hard to get some colors and I've switched to Alexseal after painting only two test panels with it.

Alexseal has a new additive for their topcoat that enables application by roller only. So far I'm happy with the results, I'll be posting more about it in my refit thread once I have gotten a bit further into the process.

Not all of the Marine LPU paints can be 'refreshed'. Both Interlux Perfection and Awlgrip restrict any form of buffing/polishing, they don't even want you to wax it. This is due to the way their products layer color and UV protectants, with the UV protectants floating to the top and staying in a thin layer at the top of the coating. Buffing/Polishing removes the UV protection and will only look OK for a short period of time after.

The Alexseal Topcoat advertises that they have UV protection throughout the coating to enable repair and buffing/polishing, they also recommend regular waxing which Awlgrip specifically advises against.
sbman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2020, 08:00 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
Padeen's Avatar
 
City: Seattle
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Mary A
Vessel Model: Chris-Craft Speedster
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 109
Did you try wet sanding a test patch? I’ve been amazed how effectively this restores gel coat
Padeen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2020, 09:03 PM   #18
Member
 
City: Montrťal
Country: Montreal
Vessel Name: Beau Sejour
Vessel Model: Bayliner 4550 1988
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 7
Thank you all for you advises and comments.
I’m now a bit more convinced to go with the paint option.
I’m in contact with two shops to do the job during the cold winter of Montreal...
I will see and keep you posted.
Sincerely.
Serge
Beau Sejour is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2020, 09:05 PM   #19
Member
 
City: Montrťal
Country: Montreal
Vessel Name: Beau Sejour
Vessel Model: Bayliner 4550 1988
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 7
Wet sand can’t be an option because at many places I already see true the gelcoat
Beau Sejour is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2020, 11:01 PM   #20
DDW
Guru
 
City: San Francisco
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,324
Gelcoat applied to a female mold also has a different finish than one sprayed on an exterior surface. It is less porous and stays shiny much longer. Once you have to sand it or compound it, you are in to the porosity below the surface. And if sprayed on the exterior, it will have orange peel and has to be block sanded and compounded, so you start with a gelcoat with all the disadvantage of 5 years of aging. Once you start compounding, you have to keep at it year after year.

There are Xlinked PU paints that can be compounded and repaired. PPG, I think Imron, perhaps some of the yacht finishes as well. Not Awlgrip. I'll be looking for one of those when I have to repaint my Awlgrip'd sailboat. The new Awlgrip "repairable" finish has instructions (can be found online) and it is a time consuming, meticulous, many step process. Others are easier. On the other hand the original Awlgrip surface seems to be tougher than any of the others.
__________________

DDW is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012
×