Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-20-2021, 05:46 PM   #1
Guru
 
Marco Flamingo's Avatar
 
City: Dewatto
Vessel Name: CHiTON
Vessel Model: Tung Hwa Clipper 30
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 623
Packing gland question.

I'm getting ready to work on my packing gland. I've never done this boat, it has required tightening more often, and the plunger looks to be close the as far as it can go. So, sort of routine maintenance.

I guess the old packing slowly wears away, otherwise there would be no reason for periodic adjustments. Which made me wonder why I would bother pulling out what remains of the old stuff. Getting it out and dealing with the inrush of water is the most tedious part of the job. Why not just put in two, or better yet, three new wraps of packing? Let the old stuff continue to disappear.

Which then made me wonder why cut three individual pieces. Wrap the stuffing around 3 1/2 times and then cut the start and finish with a long taper. One might say that the start and finish might not be perfectly flush, although having removed old stuffing I'd say that material mushes up a lot. And unlike the three section method, with the single piece method there would be no seams (which also depend on the stuffing's ability to mush up in order to seal).

Is removing the old and adding three separate rings just tradition that can be ignored?
__________________
Marco Flamingo
Marco Flamingo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2021, 06:05 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Solly's Avatar
 
City: Solomons MD.
Vessel Name: Sun Runner
Vessel Model: 1985 Mainship 34 Trawler MK III
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 454
Only thing I can say is the old packing doesn't disappear. It wears where it contacts the shaft. The outer packing is still there. If it wore away there wouldn't be any to remove maybe. Might be hard to get the new packing in.
The old way has been proven over how many years now......
Never a good idea to reinvent the wheel unless your adding/using something new/different to the mix.
Just my thoughts.....
Solly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2021, 06:58 PM   #3
TF Site Team
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 13,769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco Flamingo View Post
I'm getting ready to work on my packing gland. I've never done this boat, it has required tightening more often, and the plunger looks to be close the as far as it can go. So, sort of routine maintenance.

I guess the old packing slowly wears away, otherwise there would be no reason for periodic adjustments. Which made me wonder why I would bother pulling out what remains of the old stuff. Getting it out and dealing with the inrush of water is the most tedious part of the job. Why not just put in two, or better yet, three new wraps of packing? Let the old stuff continue to disappear.

Which then made me wonder why cut three individual pieces. Wrap the stuffing around 3 1/2 times and then cut the start and finish with a long taper. One might say that the start and finish might not be perfectly flush, although having removed old stuffing I'd say that material mushes up a lot. And unlike the three section method, with the single piece method there would be no seams (which also depend on the stuffing's ability to mush up in order to seal).

Is removing the old and adding three separate rings just tradition that can be ignored?

It depends on the stuffing box how many layers it needs. Our last boat took 6 layers. The reason not to do a spiral wrap is that the water will just follow around the spiral and leak into the boat more than necessary to lube the shaft. Put in however many layers needed and do a 90 degree cut on each. Then stagger the cuts so they are not in alignment or the water will leak through the cuts. I used Duramax packing. It lasts very well and it can be adjusted so that it doesn’t leak. You put it in loose and run the boat for 5 to 10 hours and gradually tighten the stuffing box just to the point it isn’t leaking.
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you aren’t one, there is no explanation possible.
Comodave is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2021, 07:13 PM   #4
Guru
 
Lepke's Avatar
 
City: Between Oregon and Alaska
Vessel Name: Charlie Harper
Vessel Model: Wheeler Shipyard 83'
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,578
Gee, I've been doing a spiral for right at 60 years without a problem.
A round file with the tang formed into a hook is an easy way to snag and pull out the old packing. And if it's a spiral, it all comes out in one piece.
Lepke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2021, 07:47 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Max1's Avatar
 
City: Toronto
Vessel Name: Bermuda Belle
Vessel Model: Marine Trader 36 Sedan
Join Date: Sep 2021
Posts: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco Flamingo View Post
I'm getting ready to work on my packing gland. I've never done this boat, it has required tightening more often, and the plunger looks to be close the as far as it can go. So, sort of routine maintenance.

I guess the old packing slowly wears away, otherwise there would be no reason for periodic adjustments. Which made me wonder why I would bother pulling out what remains of the old stuff. Getting it out and dealing with the inrush of water is the most tedious part of the job. Why not just put in two, or better yet, three new wraps of packing? Let the old stuff continue to disappear.
Don't be fooled! I have opened the packing glands on my propshaft and rudder shaft and in both cases, when I thought I had them all, I DID NOT.
In both cases, I think the previous owners gave up when they felt "hard bottom" on the packing glands when they were doing replacements.

I wanted to be absolutely sure I had hit bottom and even I was fooled. I kept prying even after I thought I was done. I had to dig deep and SLOWLY to pry out the last packing ring. In both the rudder and propshaft, that last packing ring was OLD and ROCK HARD.

Old rings that are hard-as-a-rock are basically like a grindstone scratching and wearing down your propshaft. So make sure you get them all out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco Flamingo View Post

Which then made me wonder why cut three individual pieces. Wrap the stuffing around 3 1/2 times and then cut the start and finish with a long taper. One might say that the start and finish might not be perfectly flush, although having removed old stuffing I'd say that material mushes up a lot. And unlike the three section method, with the single piece method there would be no seams (which also depend on the stuffing's ability to mush up in order to seal).

Is removing the old and adding three separate rings just tradition that can be ignored?
NO!

I watched a YT video of a packing gland training conference for industrial machines where they went into great detail regarding the proper packing method.

The most important take-away I got from the training beyond what I learned from sailing YT packing videos is this: You have to (gently) compress each ring one-at-a-time when you insert it to get it to squish uniformly from front to back.
If you just stuffed the box with say 3 or 4 rings (or one continuous wrap), then when you went to install the compression nut/flange/whatever-its-called, the first ring compresses the most, the second not-so-much and the third nothing at all, effectively rendering it useless. Also the first packing ring being over-compressed, wears out faster. The last ring just leaks happily away carrying no load. Not good.

By gently pre-compressing each ring, you will ensure that by the time you get to the last ring and bolt'er up, all the rings will compress evenly and control water bypass better, and wear more evenly.
Max1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2021, 08:58 PM   #6
TF Site Team
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 13,769
I use a split piece of PVC to insert the individual layers of packing. It gets the layer back into the stuffing box nice and evenly.
Attached Thumbnails
61D6EF65-C494-4C03-BC3B-7C84D505F0FA.jpg  
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you aren’t one, there is no explanation possible.
Comodave is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2021, 09:28 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Max1's Avatar
 
City: Toronto
Vessel Name: Bermuda Belle
Vessel Model: Marine Trader 36 Sedan
Join Date: Sep 2021
Posts: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comodave View Post
I use a split piece of PVC to insert the individual layers of packing. It gets the layer back into the stuffing box nice and evenly.
Thanks! I have been mulling over the idea of how to do that. The training video I watched showed a custom packing seal packer and I wondered how I could get my hands on that. Love your idea. Going to go to my plumbing bin and make one for myself now....
Max1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2021, 10:00 PM   #8
TF Site Team
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 13,769
Yes, just find a piece of PVC with an ID slightly larger than the OD of the shaft and rip in two. Woorks great..
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you aren’t one, there is no explanation possible.
Comodave is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2021, 11:56 PM   #9
Guru
 
C lectric's Avatar
 
City: Gibsons, B.C., Canada
Vessel Name: Island Pride
Vessel Model: Palmer 32'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,694
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comodave View Post
I use a split piece of PVC to insert the individual layers of packing. It gets the layer back into the stuffing box nice and evenly.
I do the same. No screwdivers or it will just pierce the new packing.
C lectric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2021, 03:19 AM   #10
Guru
 
fgarriso's Avatar
 
City: Blossom Village
Vessel Name: GOTCHA
Vessel Model: DeFever 59 PH
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 549
Don't know or remember would be more accurate. I switched over to dripless shaft seals several years ago, and never had a problem in 20,000 miles.
__________________
Captain F. Lee - R.P.E.
USCG 200 GT Master
fgarriso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2021, 11:15 AM   #11
Guru
 
AKDoug's Avatar
 
City: Kenai, Alaska
Vessel Name: Melanie Rose
Vessel Model: 1999 Willard PH
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,048
Lots of good tips here, it's easiest if you are out of the water and you can separate the packing nut from the shaft and pack it, then put it back over the shaft as in Commodave's photo. Of course this requires separating the shaft from the coupler, and I replace both packing and cutless bearing before the packing hardens completely in the gland, because it's easier for me that way.

My 1 1/4" shaft uses 5/16" packing, and I can't imagine pulling or putting it into the nut around the shaft with it coupled up. It's difficult enough when it's off the shaft, and I use a piece of fiberglass tubing the same diameter as the shaft pushed through the nut to guide it back onto the shaft with the packing installed.
AKDoug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2021, 02:10 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
City: FT.Pierce, Fl
Vessel Name: Tuna Talk
Vessel Model: CC Tournament 30
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 145
to stop the wate rfrom gushing in, I tightly wrap a small plastic carry bag from the grocery store around the shaft after having slid the nut up & away. Then just slide the plastic bag down in the packing gland and it is nearly waterproof for as long as you need to work on removing and replacing your packing.
Jim Cooper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2021, 02:06 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
Southern Boater's Avatar
 
City: Tasmania
Vessel Model: Sea Ranger 46
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comodave View Post
Yes, just find a piece of PVC with an ID slightly larger than the OD of the shaft and rip in two. Woorks great..
Thanks Dave, great tip!
Southern Boater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2021, 02:21 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
City: Stafford, VA
Vessel Name: Proud Mary
Vessel Model: 29 ft Prairie Coastal Cruiser
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco Flamingo View Post
I'm getting ready to work on my packing gland. I've never done this boat, it has required tightening more often, and the plunger looks to be close the as far as it can go. So, sort of routine maintenance.

I guess the old packing slowly wears away, otherwise there would be no reason for periodic adjustments. Which made me wonder why I would bother pulling out what remains of the old stuff. Getting it out and dealing with the inrush of water is the most tedious part of the job. Why not just put in two, or better yet, three new wraps of packing? Let the old stuff continue to disappear.

Which then made me wonder why cut three individual pieces. Wrap the stuffing around 3 1/2 times and then cut the start and finish with a long taper. One might say that the start and finish might not be perfectly flush, although having removed old stuffing I'd say that material mushes up a lot. And unlike the three section method, with the single piece method there would be no seams (which also depend on the stuffing's ability to mush up in order to seal).

Is removing the old and adding three separate rings just tradition that can be ignored?
Last year our packing gland started to leak. After repeated attempts to tighten, add, or replace packing a close inspection revealed that the prop shaft was pitted and that no amount of packing would stop a steady dripping leak. We ordered a replacement prop shaft and installed a dripless coupler while we had it apart. It was the ideal solution for us. Good Luck!
Proud Mary
Proud Mary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2021, 03:01 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
Southern Boater's Avatar
 
City: Tasmania
Vessel Model: Sea Ranger 46
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proud Mary View Post
Last year our packing gland started to leak. After repeated attempts to tighten, add, or replace packing a close inspection revealed that the prop shaft was pitted and that no amount of packing would stop a steady dripping leak. We ordered a replacement prop shaft and installed a dripless coupler while we had it apart. It was the ideal solution for us. Good Luck!
Proud Mary
Crevice corrosion where the packing seals on the shaft is quite common on older boats, and depending on the corrosion severity compared to the shaft diameter and the individual boats’ arrangement (advice by a qualified operator) one solution is to trim back the rubber stern tube where the packing is mounted, say a couple of inches, so the new packing seals on a fresh piece of shaft.
Southern Boater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2021, 03:06 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
City: Stafford, VA
Vessel Name: Proud Mary
Vessel Model: 29 ft Prairie Coastal Cruiser
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Boater View Post
Crevice corrosion where the packing seals on the shaft is quite common on older boats, and depending on the corrosion severity compared to the shaft diameter and the individual boats’ arrangement (advice by a qualified operator) one solution is to trim back the rubber stern tube where the packing is mounted, say a couple of inches, so the new packing seals on a fresh piece of shaft.
Thanks for the advice. I thought of that and tried shortening the old hose that slipped over the shaft tube but the little voice in my head started screaming for me to replace the 40+ year old components while on the hard instead of panicking somewhere in the Chesapeake Bay.
Proud Mary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2021, 03:31 PM   #17
Veteran Member
 
mickand's Avatar
 
City: Naples Fl
Vessel Name: Phantom
Vessel Model: Cheer Men PT41
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 75
If you use this packing, you can tighten to almost dripless.
Attached Thumbnails
shaft log packing.jpg  
mickand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2021, 03:42 PM   #18
Guru
 
Brooksie's Avatar
 
City: Cape Cod, MA
Vessel Name: Island Seeker
Vessel Model: Willard 36 Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,225
Find something, pipe or a socket, the same OD as your shaft to use as a mandrel to preform your rings. If you cut the rings at an angle, as many suggest, you will find that if you cut in one direction, they will be slightly too long and cutting in the other direction will leave them slightly too short.
Many don't believe it so try it yourself with a strip of paper around a rod.
Brooksie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2021, 06:47 PM   #19
TF Site Team
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 13,769
I just wrap the new packing around the shaft in front of the shaft log and cut it to length. It always fits.
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you aren’t one, there is no explanation possible.
Comodave is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2021, 12:46 AM   #20
Guru
 
kapnd's Avatar
 
City: hawaii
Vessel Name: #31
Vessel Model: ex-Navy MUB 50 fish/cruise
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cooper View Post
to stop the wate rfrom gushing in, I tightly wrap a small plastic carry bag from the grocery store around the shaft after having slid the nut up & away. Then just slide the plastic bag down in the packing gland and it is nearly waterproof for as long as you need to work on removing and replacing your packing.
How do you work around the plastic bag?
Sounds like it will be over the packing gland cavity, right where the work must be done.
I’ve used “elephant poop” on the outside to slow the water flow, no reason a plastic bag wouldn’t do the same thing, except you’d want to remove it before running.
__________________
You can lead a horse to water,
But you can't make him ski...
kapnd is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012