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Old 08-01-2020, 10:38 PM   #1
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Oil change w/ XChangeR

Xchanger plumbed to engine and genny. No problem pulling oil out.


How many of you who have some thing similar use it to put fresh oil back into the engine and genny??.


PO said he did not use it to put fresh oil back in.
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Old 08-01-2020, 11:09 PM   #2
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It is designed to do just that using the reverse pump direction. I have done it, but really prefer the old fashioned way of getting the oil back in the engine. My boat has the valving at the XchangeR to suck the oil out of the tranny, but there was no hose installed to any possible drain plug on the tranny; so I just connected a piece of hose to the correct barb on the XChangeR and stuck it right into the wide dipstick hole - does a pretty good job.

When I had the fuel tanks low and wanted all the fuel in one tank for a project I was working on, I closed the tank valves and stuck vinyl hose into the two tank fills and used the XChangeR's tranny oil suction to get the fuel out and the outlet hose connection to send the fuel to the other tank.

Last hint (I promise!) When done with the petroleum product pumping, I stick the tranny suction hose end into a bucket of water and dishwashing soap solution and pump it through to clean the impeller. Seems those darned things do not like sitting for months on end in oil and tend to fall apart at next use. I had the issue on my trawler, no matter what fancy "oil-resistant" impeller I used.
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Old 08-01-2020, 11:47 PM   #3
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Thanks Rich, I think the PO was concerned with flushing residual (dirty) oil back into the engine along with the new oil. I suspect compared what oil remains in the engine normally, the "tare" oil in the pump and hoses is pretty small. Thanks for the tips keep them coming.
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Old 08-02-2020, 12:00 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olebird View Post
Thanks Rich, I think the PO was concerned with flushing residual (dirty) oil back into the engine along with the new oil. I suspect compared what oil remains in the engine normally, the "tare" oil in the pump and hoses is pretty small. Thanks for the tips keep them coming.
Yeah, itís not a big deal. I have worked for companies where we never changed the oil. We change the filters, top off the oil, and send a sample to the lab who advises us back to what additives need to be added, but typically the top up oil was enough to keep the additives in check.
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Old 08-02-2020, 06:25 AM   #5
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My practice is as the PO described. I know a few mechanic types that do the same.
I / we realize the volume is small but just doesnt feel right to put even a small amount of dirty oil back in if there is a fairly easy way to avoid it.
I have a stubby funnel that fits snugly in the fill hole and I have room to just pour from Gal jugs.
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Old 08-02-2020, 06:37 AM   #6
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Suck the old out, pour the new in.

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Old 08-02-2020, 07:45 AM   #7
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My engines took over 6 gallons a side. I'd pump a 5 gallon pail in with the reversing gear pump, then top off by pouring in the rest. We were doing three or four oil changes a year, I was going to make them as easy as possible. And anyway, the only contaminated oil was whatever residual was left in the hose... just a trace. I had oil analysis done every change and they came back great.
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Old 08-02-2020, 07:59 AM   #8
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Xchanger plumbed to engine and genny. No problem pulling oil out.

How many of you who have some thing similar use it to put fresh oil back into the engine and genny??.

I did. Not enough clearance over the main engines to fill from the top (without lifting the saloon floor hatches) and not enough benefit to bother with all that.

I reckoned fresh oil was easily able to dilute anything remaining of the old oil in the lines. Also, the X-Chang-R probably always left a drop or two (or five or whatever) in the pans... and dilution of that seemed likely too.

My technique drew old oil out of the gears last... and since that was usually clean anyway, I reckoned that nicely cleaned up the pump itself and the drain hose from pump to bucket.

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Old 08-02-2020, 10:18 AM   #9
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Always going to be some old oil in the sump and all the internal parts so i am not concerned about a little dirty oil mixing with 5 gallons of new.

I always pumped it back in . also added a valve so I could use a plastic tube to suck out tranny oil as well.
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Old 08-02-2020, 10:37 AM   #10
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Having about 10% old oil in the engine is not to be considered a problem. IMO

There is a mindset on TF to achieve 100% of everything. Anchors dragging? not an inch. Many remember Marin Fare. When he bought the Rocna he was totally convinced it would never drag. It probably did. The seafloor in a liquid of varying degrees of liquidity. I’m saying everybody has dragged their anchors. And few know about it. But does it matter? Certainly not.
And likewise does it matter if there’s a bit of old oil in the engine after a change. Certainly not. Many people go 100,000mi. In their cars w/o changing the oil at all. We all fully accept many things that are not ideal from marriage to how green our lawns are.

Residual oil in our engines is fly stuff. Is it ideal .. no. Is it to be avoided? Not unless you like beating your head on the wall.
The downside is that you’ll have impurities like acids, fuel, carbon and other undesirables in the oil. The way to minimize the downside is not to fret around about the contamination but to do what you can to minimize it. It’s obvious you’ll never get all the oil out. Never. So to minimize it just change oil more often. Warm the engine up by an hour’s run at cruise speed or more, drop the oil out as immediately as is practical and perhaps let it drain more by leaving the engine sit overnight and extract what has drained overnight. I usually do that.

Then replenish w oil that minimizes contamination and the things that cause contamination like running a 160 degree thermostat, running at low load and hence low temps, and anything else that would promote oil contamination. And if you do change more often or even much more often. Oil changes are not expensive.

Then change often.
When you leave a bit of old oil in the engine at oil change time remember your only leaving a small fraction compared to what you put in. And like many things in life 100% is unobtainium and you’d be wasting your time thinking about it. Go cruising with or without 100% fresh oil. You don’t need it.

Pump it back in? Whatever for? And you’ll have residual oil in the thing you use if it’s the same as you use to pump it out. Sounds to me like more work and complications that pouring the new oil in through the fuller hole in the valve cover.
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Old 08-02-2020, 01:11 PM   #11
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Interesting responses - thanks.

CAP, I think we worked for the same company for a while - "never change oil, just filters and keep an eye on the chemistry". Would never say that out loud cause they make the stuff!

FWIW - My plan - use the pump out and in for bulk, major changes - to/from 5 gallon buckets. Minor additions thru the top via 1 quart containers.

Access to the gen set is restricted, the main engine less so, but cumbersome with large containers.



Cleaning the bilge if you spill it, is a PITA.


Have a great August,

Larry
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Old 08-02-2020, 01:44 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad Willy View Post
Having about 10% old oil in the engine is not to be considered a problem. IMO

There is a mindset on TF to achieve 100% of everything. Anchors dragging? not an inch. Many remember Marin Fare. When he bought the Rocna he was totally convinced it would never drag. It probably did. The seafloor in a liquid of varying degrees of liquidity. Iím saying everybody has dragged their anchors. And few know about it. But does it matter? Certainly not.
And likewise does it matter if thereís a bit of old oil in the engine after a change. Certainly not. Many people go 100,000mi. In their cars w/o changing the oil at all. We all fully accept many things that are not ideal from marriage to how green our lawns are.

Residual oil in our engines is fly stuff. Is it ideal .. no. Is it to be avoided? Not unless you like beating your head on the wall.
The downside is that youíll have impurities like acids, fuel, carbon and other undesirables in the oil. The way to minimize the downside is not to fret around about the contamination but to do what you can to minimize it. Itís obvious youíll never get all the oil out. Never. So to minimize it just change oil more often. Warm the engine up by an hourís run at cruise speed or more, drop the oil out as immediately as is practical and perhaps let it drain more by leaving the engine sit overnight and extract what has drained overnight. I usually do that.

Then replenish w oil that minimizes contamination and the things that cause contamination like running a 160 degree thermostat, running at low load and hence low temps, and anything else that would promote oil contamination. And if you do change more often or even much more often. Oil changes are not expensive.

Then change often.
When you leave a bit of old oil in the engine at oil change time remember your only leaving a small fraction compared to what you put in. And like many things in life 100% is unobtainium and youíd be wasting your time thinking about it. Go cruising with or without 100% fresh oil. You donít need it.

Pump it back in? Whatever for? And youíll have residual oil in the thing you use if itís the same as you use to pump it out. Sounds to me like more work and complications that pouring the new oil in through the fuller hole in the valve cover.
There are probably some things that aren't worth the extra effort. I never viewed pouring oil through a funnel as a big effort.

BTW, I view moving 5 gallon pails of oil into an engine room, about the same as an 8D battery. I'll leave that to the go fast crowd.

Ted
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Old 08-02-2020, 02:09 PM   #13
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Keeping fuel in a tank while replacing hoses or fittings

If you stick the suction hose from a shop vac in the fuel fill and turn on the vac you can change or add fuel hoses, fittings, or sight-glasses with out emptying the tank. Just make sure the vent hose is closed or pinched tight and no one turns off the ship vac. You will hear a lot of gurgling, but not a drop will be spilled out.
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Old 08-02-2020, 02:18 PM   #14
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If you stick the suction hose from a shop vac in the fuel fill and turn on the vac you can change or add fuel hoses, fittings, or sight-glasses with out emptying the tank. Just make sure the vent hose is closed or pinched tight and no one turns off the ship vac. You will hear a lot of gurgling, but not a drop will be spilled out.
Probably not the thing you want to try on a gasoline powered boat.

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Old 08-03-2020, 02:07 PM   #15
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Using a shop vac to suspend duel in thd tank

I would like to think no one is foolish enough to do this with gas, but I know one who might try it. Many years ago when I was the service manage of a boat yard we had a customer and three guests bring his boat in to refuel with gas. It was a 32' Chris Craft steel Roamer. While the attendant was refueling the boat the owner lifted the engine hatches on the aft deck and took this opportunity to remove and clean the sediment filters on the engines, but the attendant did not see this.

The explosion occurred after they left the dock, fortunately, but I felt the shock wave and saw the smoke. The owner was blown clear off the boat and the other three jumped overboard. Naturally no one was weraring a life jacket. We took the paramedics out to the boat which was an inferno, but were able to collect the victums and were brought back to the fuel dock where ambulance were waiting. It was a horrible sight, but amazingly none were killed. The boat burned to the waterline, the gaskets had not been put back in the filters. All received serious burns. We made a new rule that all people had to get off the boat until it was fully vacant of any fumes.
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Old 08-03-2020, 03:10 PM   #16
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BTW, I view moving 5 gallon pails of oil into an engine room, about the same as an 8D battery. I'll leave that to the go fast crowd.
Depends on the engine room. Ours were full height walk-ins. A 5 gallon pail weighs less than a third of an 8D. Those I hired some muscle to move.

I remember buying four buckets of oil at Ocean Marine in Brunswick GA. The dock guy came down from the store room up by the office with two in each hand, like they were a kid's little beach pails. Made note to self: " NEVER piss this guy off."

One benefit of using buckets is they are an excellent repository for the used oil, rather then messing with little gallon bottles.
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Old 08-03-2020, 03:34 PM   #17
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I use it to drain and fill. So does my buddy and several other people. No problems so far.
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Old 08-03-2020, 06:05 PM   #18
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I use a Reverso pump to change the oil in my mains and a hand pump vacuum pump for the two generators. I buy the oil in 5 gallon pails and pump the dirty oil into empty pails. The new oil is taken by pump directly from the pail and into the oil pan via a quick disconnect fitting at the front of the engine. There is also a fitting for the gearbox there. I don’t worry about any residual oil in the hoses since I am pumping about a pail and a half back into the engine. Between oil changes I service the oil with a hand pump that screws onto the plastic nozzle of the pail. That way I can service the oil without any spilling, without a funnel or any mess to clean up. I use the same pail and pump method in the generator room except I use a suction pump through the dipstick to change it. I buy the 15/40 generator oil in pails from NAPA like the special 40wt Detroit oil in the mains.

Since all the diesels onboard have 100hr oil change intervals I have had plenty of opportunity to perfect my technique and having an oil change pump is absolutely a necessity. As is having a pump to dispense the oil too.
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Old 08-03-2020, 08:09 PM   #19
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An 8D battery weighs in at 127 lbs, a 5 gallon pail of SAE 10W40 weighs 37.5 lbs.



The Pilot 30 II is "tight" below deck, and while the oil filler is on top of the engine, it's at the far end of a 7 ft hinged hatch - cumbersome at best to get to. No way to walk around the open hatch without climbing on seating on each side of the cockpit.


The X-ChangeR is just below the stern end of the engine hatch - very handi and makes changing the oil a snap, if your willing to pump it back into the engine. (why I asked the question)



Also, I use a lot of engine oil in other diesels so buying in bulk only makes cents!



I just roll my dock cart with a fresh bucket and an empty up next to the boat. Snap an 6 ft extension on the end of the pump feed/exit and turn the pump on.
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Old 08-03-2020, 11:11 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olebird View Post
An 8D battery weighs in at 127 lbs, a 5 gallon pail of SAE 10W40 weighs 37.5 lbs.



The Pilot 30 II is "tight" below deck, and while the oil filler is on top of the engine, it's at the far end of a 7 ft hinged hatch - cumbersome at best to get to. No way to walk around the open hatch without climbing on seating on each side of the cockpit.


The X-ChangeR is just below the stern end of the engine hatch - very handi and makes changing the oil a snap, if your willing to pump it back into the engine. (why I asked the question)



Also, I use a lot of engine oil in other diesels so buying in bulk only makes cents!



I just roll my dock cart with a fresh bucket and an empty up next to the boat. Snap an 6 ft extension on the end of the pump feed/exit and turn the pump on.
I am happy with gallon jugs poured into the oil fill with a funnel. Does not seem to be an issue for me. I have had so many impellers go out on oil changing pumps that I would be afraid of one quitting in the middle of the re-fill process and be stuck with a container impossible to get to the oil fill with.
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