Need some help troubleshooting 4045 John Deere

[Tiki]

Hi there I am new to the site and right off the bat I need some help with my John Deere 4045TFM75

It has been a long saga and for the life of me I can not figure it out.

Here is what I have done so far.

1.New filter in the Racor water separator 20 micron and new secondary filters.
2.added 5 psi marine electric lift pump between the tank and Racor.
3 New mechanical lift fuel pump
4 New injection pump ,fuel temp sensor and 4 new injectors installed and timed by John Deere marine mechanic.
5.added mechanical fuel pressure gauge at exit of secondary fuel filter before it goes to injection pump
6 changed out return fuel line to the tank
7 rerouted fuel vent hose so there it had no low points to catch fuel and block vent
8 inspected and cleaned every plug and connection through out the wire harness
Including grounds.
9. Changed out Murphy power view gauge
10 New Ecu installed by John Deere Mechanic

And I keep having the same problem
I will start the engine and fires up fine every perfect no hesitation at all
And it might run great for a few days

But it dies and I can not get it started
It throws code spn 1076 (Fuel Inj Pump Control Valve) FMI 5. (High Resistance)


And will not restart until maybe 30 to 60 mins
Later if will fire up and run great again.

The last time I thought I had it with new injection pump it ran good for two weeks but the just on the way back to the dock just before landing it died again

When it happens I feel a small stutter the 20 sec later it dies no matter what throttle position

At idle I have 6 psi fuel pressure and great flow under load it drops maybe to 3.5 psi

I took the return line off and found that the hose had an adapter with a 1/8 hole
changed it out to a little bigger opening and seems to flow fine
No change in fuel pressure.

I also took the return off and put a 3/8 clear hose and just ran it back to the fuel fill to see if there where any air pockets that would show up but just some very very small bubbles hardly noticeable fuel temp coming out is 120 degrees

It feels like the ecu is shutting down the fuel pump and will not let it fire back up

Engine temp has never been over 183 degrees

Anyone have an idea where to look?

 

[kapnd]

If it were a mechanical motor, I’d say it’s your fuel shutoff solenoid, but not sure if your electronic controlled even has one of those!

 

[AusCan]

Welcome to the site.

Sounds like you've been chasing this problem for a while. I can understand your frustration.

I'm not familiar with JD's but there are a few other members that will chime in, no doubt?
Just wondering, Was the above work done because of theis problem, or have you done the work trying to sort out the problem. Also -does this occur when running off either tank or just one?

 

[Ski in NC]

Put a clear line between tank and first component in fuel system (not sure what that is based on the text) and see if air is coming from the tank. Some engines do not handle even a little bit of air.

A hint given is that there is air showing up in the return. That came from somewhere.

Also, what does the fuel pressure do just before and during a stall?

 

[O C Diver]

I have the exact same motor. My guess, and its only a guess is the wiring harness connector at the ECU. I had the engine quit twice on me with some error code I don't remember. At the time, I was in Lake Superior. Got my JD dealer on the phone and his suggestion was to remove, inspect, and reinstall the injection pump electrical plug and the ECU plug. Did that, the engine started and ran normally. His explanation was that there is very low voltage and amperage traveling through the connectors. A dirty pin connector increases the resistance. The ECU interprets that as a component (injector pump control) problem. Reseating the connector wipes the pins and plugs clean. The second time I had the problem, I knew what it probably was. Pulled the plug assembly on the ECU, inspected it, sprayed the connector with an electronic cleaner / enhancer / corrosion inhibitor. It was either Corrosion X, or Pro Gold. I think Corrosion X, but don't remember for sure which one. Problem has not reoccured in 1,500 hours. If that is the problem, I guess it could be on either end of the wiring harness. The likelyhood is the ECU harness as the connector doesn't have as nice a sealing system.

Hope this helps. If not, I would change the wiring harness as my interpretation is an intermittent electrical problem between the injector pump and the ECU.

Ted

 

[FF]

A hunk of gunk in the fuel tank could be plugging the fuel pickup..

 

[DavidM]

I think Ski is on the right track.

Also are you sure your electric pump is pumping? If not it can create a pressure drop which will produce an even higher vacuum than normal downstream. That will pull in more air. Normally you do not need an electric pump.

Are you sure that the Racor was assembled properly when you changed the filter? There is a gasket and check valve that if assembled backwards, can leak. Instructions on how to reassemble it come with the filter.

Finally, I would reinstall the restriction orifice in the return line. I suspect it is there for a reason.

David

 

[twistedtree]

I agree that tracking down any possible air in the fuel lines is a good first step, and probably easiest fix.


But it doesn't explain the error code. FMI means that the current level for something associated with the injection pump (based on SPN 1076) has dropped below any normal value. A bad plug connection or harness seems more likely. But let's hope for an air leak. That would be easier and cheaper to fix.

 

[cardude01]

I’m betting on the ECM harness also. Electronically controlled engine relies on good clean connections, but the salty marine environment will lead to corroded connections eventually.

This recently happened to my radar connection. Corrosion at a plug was causing intermittent radar problems. CorrosionX on the plug cleared it up.

 

[O C Diver]

One of the things to understand on the 4045 ECU is that it does diagnostic checks I think every second. So, if it sees a resistance value of the injection pump control coil that is out of the allowable range, you get a warning. Unfortunately, a momentary resistance value may not keep the injection pump from working, but the computer doesn't know that.

Ted

 

[psneeld]

From an engine guru....


......might be a clue......High resistance ... where is the most likely place for an ECU to see "high resistance"? In the cable that supplies the signal. ........

OC Diver has it nailed when he suggests cleaning the connectors. That should have been the first step. That is the first place to start looking for an ECU issue on modern engines, especially when the ECU tells you what to look for.

 

[drb1025]

I had a similar problem with my 4045. The mechanic couldn’t figure it out and the JD rep agreed to replace the injection pump, Ecu, and wiring harness. The engine has been fine for 1,100 hours.

 

[greysailor]

All this makes me love my mechanical JD4045's even more! Best of luck chasing those wayward electrons, Tiki....?

 

[Lepke]

Oh! The joy of electronically controlled diesels! Problems like this are exactly why I won't have a non mechanical engine.

 

[FF]

"Problems like this are exactly why I won't have a non mechanical engine."

I agree , but the newer the boat , the more chance an electric nightmare may be below decks.

For most displacement boats the diesel electronics may cause a growing popularity for gas engines.A V6 or V8 with a carb. is really reliable, even after a thunderstorm.

If all that's needed is 20- 80HP many gas engines would work fine.

In some cases 3 or 4 new engines could be purchased for the price of an injection pump, or set of injectors. This becomes really important when the techs begin to throw parts at a problem they do not understand.

 

[DCDC]

Stella has twin Deere 6068's, electronic with Bosch VP44 injector pumps. I have had similar, but maybe not exactly the same, issues. Both times I ended up changing the injector pump. I ordered replacements and changed them myself but still expensive.

The Bosch pump seems to be somewhat delicate as it is lubricated by diesel flowing through versus other designs which are oil lubricated. If they lose fuel flow for very long they lose lubrication. There are also a few flow/pressure control valves that may stick due to fuel contamination. There is some online information on the pumps as they are (where?) used on Cummins engines for Dodge trucks and for diesel engines in Europe.

I was told by a Deere service rep that they no longer make new pumps so I ended up buying re-manufactured versions. The first time I went to a local injector shop and ordered through them as it was less expensive than Deere. This pump failed after 250 hrs (unfortunately at anchor in the Bahamas) so I ordered the next replacement from Deere.

I have a pdf copies of various Deere and Bosch maintenance/troubleshooting manuals which may be relevant for your engine. I looked up fault code 1076 but there was not much in the way of troubleshooting detail as the advice is faulty connector or faulty pump. They have detailed instructions for a lot of sensor and wiring problems if you are handy with a good multimeter. I can send you copies if you PM me.

A Deere tech should be able to connect a laptop with Deere diagnostics to your engine and maybe give you more detailed information if connected when the engine shuts down.

My problem was not intermittent, the engine stopped and would not restart after multiple attempts over several days and making sure there was adequate fuel flow with no air and that connectors/sensors/relays/fuses were OK.

Engine started immediately after changing the pumps and bleeding the system of air.

 

[O C Diver]

I have about 2,400 hours on my injector pump. Other than the connector hiccup, it's been flawless. The dealer strongly recommends the fuel additive / conditioner / lubricant which I add religiously. In the relative scheme of things, their electronic engines are extremely reliable. Between marine, agriculture, logging, mining and generators, they have to be in the hundreds of thousands produced.

Ted

 

[koliver]

I have the exact same motor. My guess, and its only a guess is the wiring harness connector at the ECU. I had the engine quit twice on me with some error code I don't remember. At the time, I was in Lake Superior. Got my JD dealer on the phone and his suggestion was to remove, inspect, and reinstall the injection pump electrical plug and the ECU plug. Did that, the engine started and ran normally. His explanation was that there is very low voltage and amperage traveling through the connectors. A dirty pin connector increases the resistance. The ECU interprets that as a component (injector pump control) problem. Reseating the connector wipes the pins and plugs clean. The second time I had the problem, I knew what it probably was. Pulled the plug assembly on the ECU, inspected it, sprayed the connector with an electronic cleaner / enhancer / corrosion inhibitor. It was either Corrosion X, or Pro Gold. I think Corrosion X, but don't remember for sure which one. Problem has not reoccured in 1,500 hours. If that is the problem, I guess it could be on either end of the wiring harness. The likelyhood is the ECU harness as the connector doesn't have as nice a sealing system.

Hope this helps. If not, I would change the wiring harness as my interpretation is an intermittent electrical problem between the injector pump and the ECU.

Ted

I did the exact same fix on my old autopilot. When it would quit, pulling the multi-pin connectors off and spraying them with WD40 would give me a few years trouble free, then I would need to do it again.
Simple to try.

 

[Boat]

It throws code spn 1076 (Fuel Inj Pump Control Valve) FMI 5. (High Resistance)

How did you get your trouble code?


Out of curiosity, I searched and saw this for the first time:


https://blog.diesellaptops.com/2016/09/02/john-deere-diagnostic-options/

John Deere has recently been in the news because of their strict opposition to allowing farmers, equipment owners, and repair shops access to the information they need to repair and maintain their vehicles. If you read the main stream news, you would be left to believe that John Deere diagnostic with a computer is impossible. Well, we are here to help dispel that myth and give some more exposure to some tools that actually do perform diagnostics on John Deere. There are actually several solutions in the market, some of which we will cover in this post.

 

[FF]

It is still my belief that our fear of electronics makes electronics the first thought with engine failure.

Engines have been stopping for many decades long before electric injectors.

I would try an outboard fuel tank, with pressure bulb , hooked to the engine directly.

This would eliminate many possible failure points the computer could not capture.

 

[beachbum5953]

Question on your Racors...

Tiki,
I have the same engine.

I have some thoughts, but first, you said you were using 20 micron Racor filters... Is that a typo? Racor makes 2, 10 and 30 micron filters.

Are you using 30 micron or 2 micron filters?

If you're using 2 micron filters, JD will tell you to switch to 30 micron filters. 2 micron produce too much resistance for the engine fuel pump.

Kyle
MV DESTINY
DeFever 49 Euro

 

[Brooksie]

Don't know much about this particular engine but most engines don't allow their fuel (lift) pump to run unless the engine is actually running. Of course this is easy with a mechanical lift pump b/c it runs off the camshaft.
With an electric fuel pump it is a different story. It seems to me that whatever method is used on your engine may be malfunctioning.
Not a good advertisement for JD if they can't help you through this quickly. If they insist on making things more complicated than they need to be then, it seems to me, they have an obligation to help customers who are wading through something like this.

 

[Exctyengr]

May God save us all from electronically controlled diesel engines. Give me the old Ford Lehman's or Perkins, DD's or even Gardners. No ECU's no sensors just a big old reliable hunk o' iron.

 

[Oldsarge]

Right on. Perkins rock. If it won't run, it is somewhere in the fuel system that there is a problem, and not a lot of things to go wrong. However even a small check valve in the fuel delivery system can bring things to a halt if it gets plugged up. (It happened to me)
I love my Perkins 4-108. I liked it so well that I actually have a spare, just in case.
Parts are pretty easy to find, and even run of the mill diesel places can rebuild and calibrate things like the atomizers if they fail. My engine easily swings an 18" prop pushing a 14 ton boat to hull speed. (displacement sailboat) I would never consider having anything other than a Perkins marine diesel in a boat, and I even live in Wisconsin near a John Deere plant. John Deere is a good reliable company making durable products, Having said that, Perkins has been doing it much longer and has been making marine diesel engines for more than 50 years.

 

[psneeld]

Before anyone believes a particular engine is without pros and cons..... you may want to do some homework.

 

[Oldsarge]

Before anyone believes a particular engine is without pros and cons..... you may want to do some homework.

That's true, but I base my reply on 17 years of experience with my Perkins. They are just good tough old engines.

 

[FF]

"Before anyone believes a particular engine is without pros and cons..... you may want to do some homework.'


They also might want to check if the company selling the engine actually built the engine , or simply marinized it.

 

[sbman]

John Deere, in the agricultural world has been shutting owners out from being able to repair their own equipment. There have been numerous lawsuits involving farm equipment and the outcomes have been mixed. Some of that may at some point have an effect on marine engines. With sensors being 'networked' and requiring ECU programming to get them accepted by the system, you have to have specialized software and authorization to do simple repairs like change a pressure sensor.

There is no factory service representative available on board your vessel while underway to tell the ECU to accept a replacement sensor/actuator/part. I do not believe this is specific to John Deere either.

I do like simple, mechanical engines and components in a boat.

 

[O C Diver]

I have a 2002 Dodge pickup with a Cummins 6BT 220 HP diesel. The engine is mechanically injected but electronically controlled. It has an ECU, a throttle potentiometer, and an electronic position controlled injection pump ( same setup an my tier 2 4045TFM75 John Deere). The truck now has 474,000 miles (9,480 +/- hours) on it. So far, I've replaced the throttle potentiometer twice.

This technology isn't new, probably 20+ years old. Probably in excess of 95% of the cars and trucks on the road in the USA have ECUs and related electronic components. The world is not coming to an end because of ECUs.

Ted

 

[Oldsarge]

I agree with that . The old saying KISS. "Keep It Simple Stupid" applies very well to yachts. I have seen boats as harbor queens because they just are too complex and difficult when there is a system problem. A certain amount of complexity is hard to get
away from. Radars and GPS and even AIS systems may be necessary, but when they
don't work, where does it leave you when you are a thousand miles off shore? Get out the old sextant. Does anyone know how to use one of those anymore? I mean you can't find your position as good as with a GPS, (except those sailors who are experts at it) but you can be pretty close.

As for John Deere and some other manufacturing companies there is a common problem in that they have distributors and dealers who they like to support. They attempt to control the support of their products by controlling their support parts and
information so that it is only available to these distributors and dealers. Individuals are kept in the dark, and are therefore made to rely on these company entities. If they have a problem. Unfortunately 1000 miles from any dealer puts your own safety at risk if you have a problem.