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Old 06-11-2021, 09:43 PM   #1
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Interior fitout - do I need stainless screws?

Hey Everyone,

Hoping you can help.

I am in the process of stripping the interior of the wheel house and cabin. I am going to rebuild most of the joinery and bed frame etc and wanted to know - do I need to use stainless steel srews? It isnt exposed to the weather, nor is it getting wet.

I am going to use structural pine for most of the frame work - just working out the best option for the fixings.

Any advice?

Cheers!

Lyndon.
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Old 06-11-2021, 09:46 PM   #2
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I would use S/S screws. When regular steel screws rust, and they will, it will be a lot of work to replace them all. Good luck with the work, how about some photos?
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Old 06-11-2021, 09:48 PM   #3
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Thanks a million Comodave! I tend to agree with you... best to be safe!

I will absolutely keep you updated with photos on the progress. Just starting the strip-out now
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Old 06-11-2021, 09:49 PM   #4
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Have fun with it. Keep us up to date.
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Old 06-12-2021, 06:37 AM   #5
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I agree with Dave. There is a wide variety of SS screws available these days and worth the premium to never have a problem.
I would recommend the square drive (forget the name?) vs Phillips. SS is soft and Phillips have a tendency to slip in some cases, especially if you ever need to remove any.
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Old 06-12-2021, 07:50 AM   #6
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SS is soft so if the pine is old growth you may need to pilot drill , but having 2 drills is no big deal .

.The square drives are great , but the T25 heads have even more drive area and will work great if the wood is soft enough not to fail the SS.
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Old 06-12-2021, 07:53 AM   #7
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If you were in the US, I'd recommend setting up an account at Fastenal, a distributor of SS fasteners. Perhaps OZ has a similar specialty purveyor.

Pictures of progress please.

Peter
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Old 06-12-2021, 08:07 AM   #8
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I agree with using SS fasteners. In fact for routine home projects I have switched to SS. The price difference is insignificant and unless you need strength in which case I would use Grade rated bolts, SS has steel beat.

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Old 06-12-2021, 08:36 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lghawk View Post
Hey Everyone,

Hoping you can help.

I am in the process of stripping the interior of the wheel house and cabin. I am going to rebuild most of the joinery and bed frame etc and wanted to know - do I need to use stainless steel srews? It isnt exposed to the weather, nor is it getting wet.

I am going to use structural pine for most of the frame work - just working out the best option for the fixings.

Any advice?

Cheers!

Lyndon.

I agree that SS is the better choice. I am refinishing some woodwork that the builder installed using steel nails. The nail heads got rusty and stained the wood. SS finishing nails or nail gun nails will be what I use to reinstall.
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Old 06-12-2021, 09:55 AM   #10
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Greetings,
ROBERTSON screws. Fastenal is a great idea. I have probably replaced hundreds of the nasty Philips screws with "Robbies".


Interesting but Robertson screws are relatively unknown by their proper name in the US. Square drive seems to be the most common description. No-one I know calls Philips, star drives.


Saloon.
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Old 06-12-2021, 10:39 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Bacchus View Post
I agree with Dave. There is a wide variety of SS screws available these days and worth the premium to never have a problem.
I would recommend the square drive (forget the name?) vs Phillips. SS is soft and Phillips have a tendency to slip in some cases, especially if you ever need to remove any.


In the US, they call the square drive screws "Square Drive". In Canada, they are called "Robertson" but they are even better, as they don't have parallel sides, but the sides are slightly sloped.

On my boat, Taiwan built, for the US market, a lot of slot screws and a lot of Philips screws were used. After 27 years of ownership, I have managed to remove many of those original screws. I like the satisfying splash when I hear the slot and Philips screws landing in the water, to be replaced with Robertsons.
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Old 06-12-2021, 10:46 AM   #12
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Greetings,
ROBERTSON screws. Fastenal is a great idea. I have probably replaced hundreds of the nasty Philips screws with "Robbies".


Interesting but Robertson screws are relatively unknown by their proper name in the US. Square drive seems to be the most common description. No-one I know calls Philips, star drives.


Saloon.
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I didn't see your post before stepping on your comments, sorry.
There is some sort of patent protection for Robertson, so the Squares are a little different.
You are correct of course, but now there are "Torx" heads that qualify for the "Star" description.

and of course, Saloon.

I can change, if I have to, maybe.
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Old 06-12-2021, 11:20 AM   #13
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lghawk,


Yes, SS are perhaps the best, but would argue to get a "trim head" square drive screw or torx. Skinnier than the typical SS screw of the same length, and you'll probably want some 1.5" and 2.25"... depending on the thickness of your wood.



You could use the trim head, square drive screw (Home Depot), which is a black galvanized screw and very popular for cabinet work. Easy to counter sink a bit and cover with a dab of wood colored wood filler. I've used them for years in cabinet assembly and never had a rust problem, but not on a boat. (but neither should get wet).



Now, for a head, my first choice is Torx (star). I've given up on the square heads, as they fail as much as a Phillips does.



And you'll want to glue and clamp the pieces and then put the screws in.



And, yes, pre-drill if necessary, but probably won't need it in pine.


Now, are you going to stain the wood or paint? If staining, you'll want to be gingerly with the amount of glue put on and certainly sand down any seepage, so the stain doesn't show it.
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Old 06-12-2021, 01:51 PM   #14
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Some observations from demo-ing the entire interior of my trawler, ready for a refit:

Philips heads truly suck. Unfortunately, Australia doesn't have many options. Go with screws with the largest slots for the guage size to ensure a good driver bite. Small slots look nice but strip very easily.

Get the correct size driver and some spares. They do wear out.

Steel screws strip far less than SS and are much stronger.

I didn't find a single rusted screw in 20+ yo cabinets. Certainly no unsightly staining.

Most importantly, what are you screwing? Screws are only there to hold the timber until the glue sets. 😁. Glues now are much stronger than nails and screws. The wood or ply will break before the adhesive gives way. Bonded panels were certainly much harder to demo than screwed.
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Old 06-12-2021, 02:05 PM   #15
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Thanks a million Comodave! I tend to agree with you... best to be safe!

I will absolutely keep you updated with photos on the progress. Just starting the strip-out now
I should have asked: are the screws that you are pulling out rusted or damaged? That will tell you the level of protection that you need.

Trust me, after you have finished with your demo you will know what fixture methods worked best.

Good luck!! 👍
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Old 06-12-2021, 02:24 PM   #16
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The US came close to being a Robertson screw country.
Henry Ford wanted to use them on his cars. He liked to control the production on everything that went into his cars. He approached Robertson about getting a license to produce the screws but Robertson wouldn’t sell the rights. Ford went with second best, Phillips, and that’s how we got stuck with Phillips drive screws.
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Old 06-13-2021, 02:39 AM   #17
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I agree with Dave. There is a wide variety of SS screws available these days and worth the premium to never have a problem.
I would recommend the square drive (forget the name?) vs Phillips. SS is soft and Phillips have a tendency to slip in some cases, especially if you ever need to remove any.
There is a solution to the dilemma of Phillips head screws. Seek out JIS impact screwdrivers. Japanese Industrial Standard, at least the ones I have that are impact versions, have "teeth" in the pointy end. It really makes a huge difference.

Aboard Seaweed I had a cabinet pull that was gauled out. I tried Everything except drilling the dang thing out to get that miserable screw out. After nearly 40 years it wanted to stay put. Well, one tap with the (manual) impact JIS driver and voila: Freed screw.

Check 'em out. Plan on spending $20-$30 dollars, each.
You can buy a set (two useful, the other two are too small) for about $15 on eBay. The smallest is perfect for my eyeglasses though... oh, and the non-impact versions I bought do not have the "teeth"

I'd definitely recommend JIS though. I love mine.
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Old 06-13-2021, 06:28 AM   #18
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Thanks a million for the advice guys!

For the framing I went with 65mm stainless bugles - super strong and worth the money. No issues with rusting here!

To answer GoneDiving - All the existing screws on the trawler are stainless. Good thing the old owner didn't skimp! So I will keep the trend going
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Old 06-13-2021, 10:24 AM   #19
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...

.The square drives are great , but the T25 heads have even more drive area and will work great if the wood is soft enough not to fail the SS.
second the T series. They drive wonderfully, compared to Phillips.
I redid my dock last year, used a zillion square head SS screws thru PCV cellular decking into PT pine. I did strip out the heads on several. Philiips would have been a disaster.

FWIW; i find the SS phillips also tends to leave sharp burs on the head if being worked hard, another disadvantage.
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Old 06-13-2021, 02:07 PM   #20
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SS is soft so if the pine is old growth you may need to pilot drill , but having 2 drills is no big deal.
THIS. I learned this years ago. Keep two cordless drills handy when dealing with a lot of screws. One with a pilot/countersink bit, the other with your drive bit. That and get a longer version of the bit than the typical inch-long variety, a full-length bit, not one of those crappy magnetic extension jobs.

If you're REALLY picky, use a stainless bit, so as to not impart any ferrous metals into the screwhead when you're driving it.

This is a set of stainless bits from Wera tha I keep onboard: https://products.wera.de/en/kraftfor..._imperial.html

Just note that stainless tends to be softer so don't expect them to be as strong as non-stainless, so don't go chucking them up into a cordless impact driver and expect them to last forever.
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