Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-14-2015, 09:27 PM   #1
Member
 
City: annapolis
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 9
Injectors on Ford Lehman 120 replacement

How difficult is it to remove and install injectors in a Ford Lehman 120 engine? I would like to remove mine and have them cleaned/adjusted at a local injector shop. Also after they are installed, how do you bleed the fuel lines at the injector?
__________________
Advertisement

AnnapolisJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2015, 10:54 PM   #2
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,745
While I've not done it it's pretty easy. I believe there have been discussions about this on the forum in the past so a search of the archives should get you these discussions.

Whether or not you need to bleed the injectors seems to depend on the disposition of your engine. We never have to bleed our injectors after a fuel filter change on our two FL120s. We bleed the two filters on the rear of the engine and the injection pump but we've never bled the injectors themselves. The engines always start right up.

However, there have been folks on the Grand Banks owners forum who say they need to bleed their injectors as well, to get their FL120(s) to start.

Don't know how readable this is but here is the section from the FL120 operator's manual on how to remove the injectors. Surprisingly, the Ford shop manual for this engine doesn't describe removing the injectors, at least not anywhere I could find. It just says to do it in those operations where it's necessary. I guess it assumes the shop people all know how to do it.
Attached Thumbnails
Fuel Injector Removal FL120.jpg  
__________________

Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2015, 01:32 PM   #3
Member
 
City: annapolis
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 9
Marin--Many thanks for the info. I have the manual and, as you point out, it does not look too difficult to do. My engines have approx 2500 hrs and someone said I should have the injectors rebuilt/replaced. But both engines run fine besides a little smoke when I start them cold. Do I fix them if they are not broken? Decisions Decisions.

Many thanks.
AnnapolisJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2015, 01:42 PM   #4
Guru
 
Capt.Bill11's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,438
In most cases redoing the injectors does little to help with the smoking on a Lehman. Especially if it's running well otherwise.
Capt.Bill11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2015, 04:37 PM   #5
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,745
If an FL120 doesn't smoke (blue) on cold start startup there's something wrong with it. It's the nature of the beast.

If the smoke doesn't go away after a few minutes as the engine warms up and finishes burning off the lube oil that's seeped down past the valve stems while it's been sitting, there is also something wrong with it.
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2015, 06:56 PM   #6
Guru
 
Capt.Bill11's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marin View Post
If an FL120 doesn't smoke (blue) on cold start startup there's something wrong with it. It's the nature of the beast.

If the smoke doesn't go away after a few minutes as the engine warms up and finishes burning off the lube oil that's seeped down past the valve stems while it's been sitting, there is also something wrong with it.
Perhaps. But at least with a Lehman you have a couple thousand hours or more to figure it out.
Capt.Bill11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2015, 08:28 PM   #7
Guru
 
Xsbank's Avatar
 
City: Pender Harbour, BC
Vessel Name: Gwaii Haanas
Vessel Model: Custom Aluminum 52
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,797
Expensive repair if it ain't broken. I mailed mine to a fine gent in Wisconsin who sent me a set of rebuilt ones for $25 each. That was worth doing but he's retired now. Little difference except a slightly smoother idle. Not for $100 a pop, or whatever it is now, thank you.
__________________
Don't believe everything that you think.
Xsbank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2015, 02:14 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
av8r's Avatar
 
City: Anacortes
Vessel Name: Selah
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander 40
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 260
It is easy to remove and replace the injectors, and you do not need to bleed them if your batteries are in good shape. 30-45 seconds of cranking at half throttle should be fine.
Some of us think it is faster to remove the rocker shaft to remove the injectors (me) and some of us think it is a waste of time to remove the rockers (xsbank).
Adjusting the valves had more effect on smoothing out the idle than changing the injectors did, and resetting the injector pump timing to factory specs smoothed things out even more.
av8r is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2015, 10:33 AM   #9
Member
 
City: annapolis
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 9
Thanks to all of you for your sound advice. This is my first time using this forum and it is great getting your responses. My vote it to leave the injectors alone until they really need attention.

Thanks to all.
AnnapolisJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2015, 11:14 AM   #10
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 15,433
Greetings,
Mr. AJ. I may have missed you. If so, welcome aboard. I think your final post (#9 above) is a wise decision OR if it ain't broke, fix it until it is...

__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2015, 08:29 PM   #11
Guru
 
kchace's Avatar
 
City: Brookline, NH
Vessel Name: Blue Heaven
Vessel Model: Albin 43 classic double cabin, twin 135 Lehmans
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,039
There are some engines that need (and some manuals specify) injector service at regular intervals, Lehmans are not one of those. In my opinion some mechanics who are not particularly familiar with Lehmans may needlessly recommend injector work. The bottom line is that absent an obvious injector type issue, a Lehman can go thousands of hours without any need for injector service.

Ken
kchace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2021, 08:46 PM   #12
Newbie
 
City: Lakeland
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 4
Thanks for everyone’s help on this injector or fuel problem we appreciate it
Biwitched is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2021, 05:49 AM   #13
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 21,818
Modern chemistry is cheap and might be a help.

My injector guy sez its worth a shot to clean injectors in place .

An hour of running is usually enough to realize any difference , if there will be a difference.


Stanadyne Performance Formula Diesel Fuel Injector Cleaner ...







FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2021, 09:04 AM   #14
Guru
 
Pete Meisinger's Avatar
 
City: Oconto, WI
Vessel Name: Best Alternative
Vessel Model: 36 Albin Aft Cabin
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,001
Not at all a difficult job. The most difficult part is getting the bleed off/overflow tube out of the engine. It MUST come out, it is a twisted tube with a hollow nut at each injector. Just kind of a pain to get out and replace.

The injectors themselves come out pretty easy. There is a pry bar type of tool which helps but I didn't use one. Be certain you get the "crush" washers out of the holes and be certain to install new ones. Plug the empty holes with a rag as you work on the others, keeps dirt and old crushed washers out.

The valve cover gasket is reusable unless it is broken or really sad looking.

Rebuilding will run you about a hundred each. There are no new ones available. Have your shop guy save you the worst of the mechanical injector part. They are fun to play with and makes it easy to see why the engine was misbehaving.

Plan on a couple hours out and a couple back in. Not a bad idea to adjust the valves while the injectors are out. No compression makes turning the engine very easy.

DO It, don't be scared

pete
Pete Meisinger is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2021, 07:51 PM   #15
Guru
 
catalinajack's Avatar
 
City: Edgewater, MD
Vessel Name: Catalina Jack
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,369
If you decide to adjust the valves, a good idea, on a FL120 the heads must be retorqued first. If the gaskets are trashed, consider installing studs in the block rather than using those 1/2- inch slotted bolts to tighten down the valve cover. Doing so will allow you to silicone glue the gasket to the valve cover and then slip it over the studs. Then tighten the nuts. That way there is no risk of the new gasket slipping off the mating surface. You can get the studs from McMaster-Carr. If anyone is interested I can look up the part number from my order.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Meisinger View Post
Not at all a difficult job. The most difficult part is getting the bleed off/overflow tube out of the engine. It MUST come out, it is a twisted tube with a hollow nut at each injector. Just kind of a pain to get out and replace.

The injectors themselves come out pretty easy. There is a pry bar type of tool which helps but I didn't use one. Be certain you get the "crush" washers out of the holes and be certain to install new ones. Plug the empty holes with a rag as you work on the others, keeps dirt and old crushed washers out.

The valve cover gasket is reusable unless it is broken or really sad looking.

Rebuilding will run you about a hundred each. There are no new ones available. Have your shop guy save you the worst of the mechanical injector part. They are fun to play with and makes it easy to see why the engine was misbehaving.

Plan on a couple hours out and a couple back in. Not a bad idea to adjust the valves while the injectors are out. No compression makes turning the engine very easy.

DO It, don't be scared

pete
catalinajack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2021, 08:40 AM   #16
Veteran Member
 
jgtrucking's Avatar
 
City: Camden, TN
Vessel Name: Toscana
Vessel Model: Island Gypsy 44 Flushdeck
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by catalinajack View Post
If you decide to adjust the valves, a good idea, on a FL120 the heads must be retorqued first. If the gaskets are trashed, consider installing studs in the block rather than using those 1/2- inch slotted bolts to tighten down the valve cover. Doing so will allow you to silicone glue the gasket to the valve cover and then slip it over the studs. Then tighten the nuts. That way there is no risk of the new gasket slipping off the mating surface. You can get the studs from McMaster-Carr. If anyone is interested I can look up the part number from my order.
I have adjusted many valves, but this spring will be the first on my fl's. I have never seen anything about retorquing head bolts, on an in-service engine. Nor do i remember it from the scan of the procedure about a year ago. I do know it says to do it at operating temp, but ive been assured you can let her cool a bit more for mechanic's comfort without hurting the process.
That said, i am curious where the re-torquing of the head bolts comes from? I don't know everything, so i might well have missed this...
jgtrucking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2021, 09:03 AM   #17
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 23,387
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgtrucking View Post
I have adjusted many valves, but this spring will be the first on my fl's. I have never seen anything about retorquing head bolts, on an in-service engine. Nor do i remember it from the scan of the procedure about a year ago. I do know it says to do it at operating temp, but ive been assured you can let her cool a bit more for mechanic's comfort without hurting the process.
That said, i am curious where the re-torquing of the head bolts comes from? I don't know everything, so i might well have missed this...
There is advice all over the map about servicing Lehmans. Some believe what one man said (even though some of it changed over the years even from his mouth) is gospel, even if it doesn't follow conventional wisdom. Some follow 1950's oil recommendations despite info suggesting newer oils may have or not.....have beneficial properties.

I think retorqing the head is important at different phases of the engine life and maintenance. But every time you check or adjust the valves?

If I worried about head bolt torque that often, I would be looking for alternatives to those bolts or a new engine. Valves being out of adjustment may be for all sorts of reasons.

Some people apply rules of thumb without looking at the big picture of how things out of metal either work or don't.
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2021, 11:13 AM   #18
Guru
 
Soo-Valley's Avatar
 
City: Gulf Islands
Vessel Name: Soo Valley
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 36
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 2,283
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnapolisJim View Post
How difficult is it to remove and install injectors in a Ford Lehman 120 engine? I would like to remove mine and have them cleaned/adjusted at a local injector shop. Also after they are installed, how do you bleed the fuel lines at the injector?
In the library (top right of web page) I have uploaded a service manual and now an operators manual (once upload is approved). The job is easy, just takes longer to do than expected first time, plan on the day.
__________________
SteveK AKA Soo Valley
You only need one working engine.
That is why I have two.
Soo-Valley is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2021, 07:21 PM   #19
Guru
 
catalinajack's Avatar
 
City: Edgewater, MD
Vessel Name: Catalina Jack
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,369
psneeld, yes, there are all kinds of advice on servicing Lehman diesels. I got mine from Brian at American Diesel. He recommends adjusting the valves every 1,000 hours. He also counsels that retourquing the heads should be done before adjusting the valves on a FL120. However, on a FL135, the heads do not get touched, different type of head bolt. If in doubt call Brian. I did.

As for 1950's oil recommendations, now that does not make any sense. Oil formulations have changed dramatically in the last 60 years. However, the engines haven't changed so the advice on retourquing the heads remains as valid today as it was yesterday.
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
There is advice all over the map about servicing Lehmans. Some believe what one man said (even though some of it changed over the years even from his mouth) is gospel, even if it doesn't follow conventional wisdom. Some follow 1950's oil recommendations despite info suggesting newer oils may have or not.....have beneficial properties.

I think retorqing the head is important at different phases of the engine life and maintenance. But every time you check or adjust the valves?

If I worried about head bolt torque that often, I would be looking for alternatives to those bolts or a new engine. Valves being out of adjustment may be for all sorts of reasons.

Some people apply rules of thumb without looking at the big picture of how things out of metal either work or don't.
catalinajack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2021, 08:23 PM   #20
TF Site Team
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Never Say Never
Vessel Model: President 41 DC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 11,394
I took a seminar from Bob Smith. We did the valves but did not retorque the head.
__________________

__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you aren’t one, there is no explanation possible.
Comodave is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012
×