Hard or Ablative Bottom Paint?

[BandB]

My experience is that cavitation cleaners do not damage or remove anti fouling paint.

Then would it be fair to say something like this: That an experienced and good bottom cleaner might do a better job without one but that if you're using inexperienced people to clean, having them use a cavitation cleaner involves less risk than allowing them to potentially scrape or use abrasive materials? It would seem the cavitation cleaner takes some of the risk out of their hands.

 

[dhays]

A couple of other trends we've seen on bottom cleaning. First, we include in that the running gear and checking all anodes and checking and cleaning all thru hulls thrusters. Now, most local divers now have cameras and take before and after photos and call to your attention anything they notice out of the ordinary. It eliminates a lot of future conflicts. You have time stamped before and after photos plus additional close ups of anything remarkable.

I am fortunate(?) to live in an area with cold water, so we don't get fouling quickly. I have a diver contracted as you do, he has his crew clean the hull every 3 months and does and inspection at the time. At first he would report back on any anodes that needed to be replaced and ask if I wanted them done. Now, he just replaces them as needed and sends me the bill.

 

[fstbttms]

Then would it be fair to say something like this: That an experienced and good bottom cleaner might do a better job without one but that if you're using inexperienced people to clean, having them use a cavitation cleaner involves less risk than allowing them to potentially scrape or use abrasive materials? It would seem the cavitation cleaner takes some of the risk out of their hands.

The short answer to your question is "yes." But if your hull diver needs to use a scraper or very abrasive cleaning media as an every time, all-over tool to clean your hull, you are not having your bottom cleaned often enough. There should be no reason to use the Caviblaster to clean anything other than running gear if you are properly maintaining your boat. If you are considering requiring your dive service to use the Caviblaster to clean your boat bottom every time, be prepared to pay extra. If it were me, you'd pay a lot extra. As I mentioned before, the Caviblaster is an extra piece of equipment that requires either a boat or an additional person to move from job to job. And again, it is considerably slower than cleaning by other means.

Quite honestly, I'd probably refuse such a request.

 

[BandB]

The short answer to your question is "yes." But if your hull diver needs to use a scraper or very abrasive cleaning media as an every time, all-over tool to clean your hull, you are not having your bottom cleaned often enough. There should be no reason to use the Caviblaster to clean anything other than running gear if you are properly maintaining your boat. If you are considering requiring your dive service to use the Caviblaster to clean your boat bottom every time, be prepared to pay extra. If it were me, you'd pay a lot extra. As I mentioned before, the Caviblaster is an extra piece of equipment that requires either a boat or an additional person to move from job to job. And again, it is considerably slower than cleaning by other means.

Quite honestly, I'd probably refuse such a request.

We're not considering it. We're very happy with what we have. No scraping. No abrasive media. None Ever. Photos before and after. Replacement of zincs. Advises us if the Prop Speed is starting to show signs it may be time to pull and redo.

There is one boat cleaner here that has picked up business by advertising their Caviblaster. They even have a video on their site. Now, they're also using it to clean docks, pilings, walls, and other things like that. I can really see it's potential in a marina or even at home. We have a lot of dock and a lot of pilings at home that I've thought it could be used potentially on. Takes a lot of business to justify a Caviblaster as I believe the cheapest ones are about $13k.

 

[foggysail]

Hard paint will build up and after 12-15 years chips..

Right on ^ ^ been there, done that

 

[Bigsfish]

Just my SSO, not gospel or the law.

I have kept a boat on the Miami Riverfor over 40 years, Miami was brackish and I kept moving up the river to be sure of that. My reasoning was that the river was flushing either fresh or salt water and that should keep the growth down because while some may grow in brackish water many will only grow in one of the other. A further benefit was flushing out the engines with fresh water but we are considering bottom paint.

I used hard bottom paint like Micron when it had a lot of copper in it, I later tried ablative paint in the hope of never sandblasting the bottom. It was good for about a year as long as the boat was cruising at 15 knots plus. I switched back to Trinadad about five years ago and it seems to work very good in my application and it lasts about two years and if the boat goes out each week it doesn't need scrubbing. Not saying it will be the best for you.

As Scott stated it, the variables are many and the choice is situationally dependent.

YMMV

 

[Gordon J]

No test boats

But aren't their tests of bottom paints on sailboats?

Practical sailor uses test panels in various locations, from Florida to northeast.

 

[BandB]

Practical sailor uses test panels in various locations, from Florida to northeast.

I didn't ask about location, I asked about the type boats. Are they testing on trawlers, semi-displacement, planing powerboats, performance boats?

 

[Pgitug]

Just my SSO, not gospel or the law.



I have kept a boat on the Miami Riverfor over 40 years, Miami was brackish and I kept moving up the river to be sure of that. My reasoning was that the river was flushing either fresh or salt water and that should keep the growth down because while some may grow in brackish water many will only grow in one of the other. A further benefit was flushing out the engines with fresh water but we are considering bottom paint.



I used hard bottom paint like Micron when it had a lot of copper in it, I later tried ablative paint in the hope of never sandblasting the bottom. It was good for about a year as long as the boat was cruising at 15 knots plus. I switched back to Trinadad about five years ago and it seems to work very good in my application and it lasts about two years and if the boat goes out each week it doesn't need scrubbing. Not saying it will be the best for you.



As Scott stated it, the variables are many and the choice is situationally dependent.



YMMV

Excuse my ignorance, but is Trinadad a Hard Bottom Paint or Ablative?

 

[fstbttms]

Excuse my ignorance, but is Trinadad a Hard Bottom Paint or Ablative?

Pettit Trinidad is a hard paint. Anything from the Interlux Micron line is not.

 

[Bigsfish]

True, it is hard slick and works well for me.

BandB
I've been reading PS for a number of years and I seem to recall they don't test on boat hulls at all but strips of (I assume) fiberglass that is attached to the dock and hung in the water. I believe one location was Clearwater, FL. I'm not sure this is the best way to test but it's what they do.

Hope this helps.

 

[BandB]

True, it is hard slick and works well for me.

BandB
I've been reading PS for a number of years and I seem to recall they don't test on boat hulls at all but strips of (I assume) fiberglass that is attached to the dock and hung in the water. I believe one location was Clearwater, FL. I'm not sure this is the best way to test but it's what they do.

Hope this helps.

Thanks. That testing has some value but is very limited in that most of our boats aren't strips of fiberglass attached to docks and the use of the boats is a very important aspect of selection of bottom paints.

Primarily all any of us have to go by is anecdotal evidence. However, it appears not so bad to me, if we listen and interpret it correctly. What we hear from shipyards and other boat owners in our areas with similar usage tends to lead to some sound conclusions. There are definitely a few favorites in each area and type boat and that is based on performance. You don't build a large loyal following in bottom paint by failing to do the job.

The problem becomes only when we start putting too much value in experiences of those in very different situations than us. South Florida to the PNW are huge differences.

 

[Bigsfish]

Your spot on. Each situation is different but some similarities may point us in the right decision to make a choice. We are all looking for the bottom paint that adds a knot to our speed, never needs cleaning because nothing grows on it. If anyone finds it let me know. LOL

 

[fstbttms]

I've been reading PS for a number of years and I seem to recall they don't test on boat hulls at all but strips of (I assume) fiberglass that is attached to the dock and hung in the water. I believe one location was Clearwater, FL. I'm not sure this is the best way to test but it's what they do.

This is how paint manufacturers test their products as well. That said, I have always found the Pratical Sailor anti fouling paint reviews to be next to worthless. And in some degree that is (no doubt) due to the fact that they do their testing in Florida and Rhode Island, neither of which locations provide results that are directly translatable to most of the rest of the coastal U.S.

 

[dhays]

This is how paint manufacturers test their products as well. That said, I have always found the Pratical Sailor anti fouling paint reviews to be next to worthless. And in some degree that is (no doubt) due to the fact that they do their testing in Florida and Rhode Island, neither of which locations provide results that are directly translatable to most of the rest of the coastal U.S.

Worthless in general or worthless for your water conditions in the SF bay area?

My professional life is largely made up of evaluating research and trying to extrapolate that to my individual patients. It isn't perfect but it is generally better than nothing. Until an independent body begins striping the bottom of boats with different paints and then operates those boats in a variety of locations under a variety of locations, panel tests are going to be the best research we have available.

 

[fstbttms]

Worthless in general or worthless for your water conditions in the SF bay area?

Both. While it is true that some paints perform better than others in various regions, my experience with the PS reviews is that some of the paints that they rated highly were products I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. This ocurred multiple times over a number of years until I stopped subcribing and paying attention to them. Certainly it can be argued that some of this can be attributed to differing fouling conditions in various regions of the country, but a top-notch anti fouling paint is going to work well in most conditions. This was not reflected in their reviews. And since their testing did not include any locations on the West Coast (primarily California, since we have the most rigorous fouling conditions on this side of the country,) I found their results to be fairly useless.

 

[psneeld]

I too find most of these tests have very different results from my actual working around boats experiences.

Much like consumer reports nail certain products and seem left field for others.

Look at the anchor tests and how all over the map they have been for years. Look at products with expectations,...develop tests that even involuntarily are slanted....and if you are just a hobbist...how do you know how far off their results might be?

 

[Baker]

Boat comes out of the water on Travel lift...
Yard guy asks, "How long since last bottom paint?".
Me, "A little over 4 years."
Yardguy, "I would stick to whatever paint you are using!".

Interlux Ultra Bio....I also use my boat at least once a week which helps.

 

[Bigsfish]

Baker

I have found the same with hard paints, the more use the cleaner the bottom stays. I try to get out once a week if not more, when I had to leave the boat for a month stuff grew on the bottom.

 

[Choices]

I am going to extend this string, if ok.

I need bottom paint for a GB36, single screw. Cruise 7 knots.

Area: Gulf Coast, Houston to Key West.

Boat will move for weeks at a time then sit for a month, and then repeat.

When near Ft Myers Municipal we leave the boat a month, and that kills about everything we pick up.

Key West had to clean bottom every two weeks in the summer.

Based on that criteria, what would you recommend?

 

[Comodave]

I am going to extend this string, if ok.

I need bottom paint for a GB36, single screw. Cruise 7 knots.

Area: Gulf Coast, Houston to Key West.

Boat will move for weeks at a time then sit for a month, and then repeat.

When near Ft Myers Municipal we leave the boat a month, and that kills about everything we pick up.

Key West had to clean bottom every two weeks in the summer.

Based on that criteria, what would you recommend?

I like Interlux paints, just have had good success with them. I would call their support and ask them that question.

 

[BandB]

I am going to extend this string, if ok.

I need bottom paint for a GB36, single screw. Cruise 7 knots.

Area: Gulf Coast, Houston to Key West.

Boat will move for weeks at a time then sit for a month, and then repeat.

When near Ft Myers Municipal we leave the boat a month, and that kills about everything we pick up.

Key West had to clean bottom every two weeks in the summer.

Based on that criteria, what would you recommend?

What paint is on it now?

 

[FF]

Where you plan on storing the boat , afloat in seawater, or freshwater or on land will make a big difference in the paints longevity.

 

[Leeward III]

2 coats Interlux (red) Fiberglass BottomKote NT (hard), followed by 2 coats Interlux Act (blue, ablative), over properly barrier coated surface. When you can see the red paint it’s time to redcoat with blue. No build up. If you keep the boat moving it offers good protection.

 

[psneeld]

I have been using Fiberglass BottomKote NT for decades... it is according to Interlux website...

Fiberglass Bottomkote NT (New Technology) is formulated with unique Dual Resin Technology, providing the benefits of both hard and ablative antifoulings.

The biggest drawback is you can't haul out for more than a few days or hours and not recoat.

I use it, my lobsterman friend from Maine uses it in ME and FL boas and I started using it after the Assistance towing boat fleet I worked for used it.

Worked about as good as any and was one of the lowest priced antifouling paints.

 

[Hippocampus]

Key issue is noted above.”keep the boat moving “. Unfortunately that’s often not the case. Have come to believe ablative works better than hard for slow moving boats and those that sit at times. But neither work as well as they would if the boat is frequently used. Miss tin which seemed to work regardless.
Totally unimpressed with any of the water based products nor antislime agents. Yes, for bottom paint there were the good old days. Our practice has changed. Now if the boat is going to sit will dive it. Even if t means hiring a diver. Just want no hard growth to settle in. If that happens hard or ablative getting it off will leave a flake of no paint even if there’s several layers. Also remove all paint every ~4 to 5 years. Touch ups still leave an uneven surface. Smooth surface means less parasitic drag and more difficulty for growth to get a hold to. Painting do two coats to all leading and trailing edges for one coat elsewhere. Prefer ablative. Doing hard is just to hard. Really should be burnished and find it more particular in getting a good application. My two cents.

 

[rslifkin]

Key issue is noted above.”keep the boat moving “. Unfortunately that’s often not the case. Have come to believe ablative works better than hard for slow moving boats and those that sit at times.

Even then, not all ablatives are created equal. Some are pretty hard and only ablate very slowly unless used on a fast boat (such as Micron CSC). Others are softer and ablate more readily.

 

[Hippocampus]

Agree RS so pay attention to the practical sailor ratings.

 

[BandB]

Until answering the question of what is on the boat today, he can't know what the options are.

 

[Choices]

What was on it was Petit Ultima SR40. Been on two plus years, applied by Wood Forest Marine. They did a beautiful job. They are recommending Petit Odessey HD. Both were ablative.