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Old 03-10-2021, 11:51 PM   #21
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Frosty, good questions. I installed 13 of the IBV valves, flanged adapters, backing plates and through hulls below the waterline and see few, if any, disadvantages. The valves and adapters are very robust, heavy castings. Because the threads match on both sides of the adapters, the threaded connections between the through hulls and flanged adapters and between the adapters and valves are deep and strong. I also really like Groco’s thick composite backing plates, which can be epoxied to the inner hull, won’t swell with moisture and provide the studs that the flanges bolt to. They essentially double the thickness of the hull where the adapter and through hull mate up. With the backing plates and adapters, there’s also no need to drill three more holes per seacock through the hull to secure the seacocks. Lastly, it’s at least theoretically possible to change out a valve without hauling if you can temporarily plug the through hull from the outside. (Haven’t tried this and, as well built as this gear is, I doubt I’ll have to.) Had them in since 2015 without a hint of a leak or seep. Would definitely do it again.
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Old 03-11-2021, 12:50 AM   #22
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Angus,

Thank you for your perspective. Your parts layout is so nice and tidy looking

I had seen those backing plates, (tho they were not in existence last time I replaced seacocks, so I made my own out of fiberglass board with a hole saw and drill/tap.

A couple points though:

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Originally Posted by angus99 View Post
I also really like Groco’s thick composite backing plates, which can be epoxied to the inner hull, won’t swell with moisture and provide the studs that the flanges bolt to. They essentially double the thickness of the hull where the adapter and through hull mate up. With the backing plates and adapters, there’s also no need to drill three more holes per seacock through the hull to secure the seacocks.
This is exactly how I did mine, but with the BV seacocks. What I mean is that I made my own fiberglass backing blocks (used pre-made fiberglass sheet from McMaster Carr), epoxied them to the inner hull, and they were tapped for the seacock fasteners, so no holes through the hull for those.

So for those points, the BV can be the same, because that's about the backing block/installation. One could now use those Groco backing blocks instead of making them.

The ones you installed still do have the ability to come apart which the BV don't, so there they are not equivalent.
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Old 03-11-2021, 05:38 AM   #23
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I have never understood the attraction of these, and especially in this case where the op doesn't have any valves to re-use.

I'm asking for your reasons not to challenge you, but because I respect your opinion.

What bothers me about them is you still have the union of two threaded portions on the "wrong" side of the valve. So that material on each piece almost has to be thinner than a solid seacock. And it's threaded.

But mostly, what do you gain? I suppose if you had a boat full of valves you could mate to them you could save money, but with a boat full of Groco SV's that won't be the case. Yes, you could switch valves later without putting in a new base, but it's not that one does that very often (in another 30 years when a new quality seacock goes bad you might want to check the through hull anyway).

I guess I could imagine some cramped space in which it would solve an an installation problem, but otherwise.... am I missing something?

Edited to add:

Groco BV vs. Groco IVBF
I was slow to warm up to them too - what problem are they solving? The traditional seacock lasts a long time, why separate the base from the valve?

I would lean towards the separate pieces just because eventually the valve will need to be replaced. Won't be soon, but someday it will. Not having to replace the flange base would make it much easier.

I just turned 60 and just had my thru hulls replaced with the traditional groco seacock. They are slightly more compact than the separate assembly or I would have gone that route. But either way, they will outlive me. Not a huge preference, but the separated are a bit more serviceable.

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Old 03-11-2021, 06:25 AM   #24
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The rubber plug seacocks I have seen usually have a T handle opposite the operating lever.

This pushes on the rubber plug to make it water tight.

The T handle must be loose a turn or two before any attempt to change the valve operation.
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Old 03-11-2021, 08:34 AM   #25
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Angus,

Thank you for your perspective. Your parts layout is so nice and tidy looking

I had seen those backing plates, (tho they were not in existence last time I replaced seacocks, so I made my own out of fiberglass board with a hole saw and drill/tap.

A couple points though:



This is exactly how I did mine, but with the BV seacocks. What I mean is that I made my own fiberglass backing blocks (used pre-made fiberglass sheet from McMaster Carr), epoxied them to the inner hull, and they were tapped for the seacock fasteners, so no holes through the hull for those.

So for those points, the BV can be the same, because that's about the backing block/installation. One could now use those Groco backing blocks instead of making them.

The ones you installed still do have the ability to come apart which the BV don't, so there they are not equivalent.
Sounds like a very good install. The flanged adapters were a selling point for me because, on our boat, the only thing holding the valves and through hulls together were a few mismatched threads—there were no bolts and no true seacocks. According to Rod Collins, they are (or were) still made that way—one fitting is NPT and the other NPS—and only engage a few threads when connected.

https://marinehowto.com/seacock-thru-hull-primer/

I didn’t the want to repeat that mismatch. The flanged adapters provide the correct mating threads for both components. I could not wrap my head around why anyone would market components that didn’t mate properly—especially for such an important application. True, you don’t read about many failures resulting from this and maybe Groco has changed the thread patterns in recent years, but they were still dissimilar when we were upgrading.
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Old 03-11-2021, 08:47 AM   #26
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Okay, guys, there is a 100% consensus that I need to install new valves. I will be doing so, soon. I have plenty of real estateon the seachest wall above those two decrepit valves. I have learned here that the installation is really not that much of a big deal especially with the great access I have. Thanks so much, everyone, for taking the time to provide your insights.

One last question: what are your thoughts on installing them while in the water. I can glue the backing plate in place, get the flange ready to bolt to the plate with the ball valve mounted, drill the center hole for the water intake, and quickly, very quickly bolt the assembly to the backing plate. Crazy idea?
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Old 03-11-2021, 08:49 AM   #27
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The mismatch is only an issue when threading a plain ball valve onto a thru hull without the adapter. If you use a proper flanged seacock, they've got straight threads to match the thru hull. The adapters do give you the ability to replace the valve itself more easily, however.
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Old 03-11-2021, 08:53 AM   #28
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One last question: what are your thoughts on installing them while in the water. I can glue the backing plate in place, get the flange ready to bolt to the plate with the ball valve mounted, drill the center hole for the water intake, and quickly, very quickly bolt the assembly to the backing plate. Crazy idea?

Ideally, find a way to keep the sea chest from overflowing too much with the top off. Then have a helper hold a bowl over the spot you're drilling to minimize water ingress. Come up with a way to hold the thru hull from turning while tightening everything that also plugs it to avoid a ton of water coming in. 4200 and 5200 will cure underwater, so you will have no trouble sealing the thru hull. Once you've got the thru hull coated in sealant and the tool/plug ready to go, pull the bowl, shove the fitting in and then assemble it all.


Should be possible to do that without too much mess. And then get the old seacocks shut off, confirm they're sealing properly and plan to remove them at your next haulout.
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Old 03-11-2021, 08:54 AM   #29
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Belay my last message with respect to doing the work in the water. As it turns out, the boat is going on the hard for some other work. I will mount the backing plates beforehand and have the yard drill the center hole and mount the flanges and valves. Can't be any more than one hour of labor.
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Old 03-11-2021, 09:08 AM   #30
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Belay my last message with respect to doing the work in the water. As it turns out, the boat is going on the hard for some other work. I will mount the backing plates beforehand and have the yard drill the center hole and mount the flanges and valves. Can't be any more than one hour of labor.

Don't forget about installing a thru hull in that center hole for the flange piece to screw onto.



And while you're on the hard, it might be worth assessing how much work it'll be to cut out and glass over the old valves so you don't have to worry about them.
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Old 03-11-2021, 09:32 AM   #31
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Good choice to replace with new. I had followed Angus's lead and replaced all my sea chest thru hulls and sea cocks with the Groco IBV system. That was about 5 years ago, and still really like them.

Bill
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Old 03-11-2021, 09:58 AM   #32
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The mismatch is only an issue when threading a plain ball valve onto a thru hull without the adapter. If you use a proper flanged seacock, they've got straight threads to match the thru hull. The adapters do give you the ability to replace the valve itself more easily, however.
Damn! I think you’re right. A mind is a terrible thing to lose and I haven’t read the specs in a long time—should have checked before posting. Looking at Groco’s site, they list the female threads on the SBV series seacocks as NPS. The TH through hull series male threads are a “combination” NPT/NPSM. Not sure how they make that distinction since more than the taper is at play but I only fixated on the NPT part. Presumably, that means they’re compatible. Thanks for setting me straight.
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Old 03-11-2021, 11:31 AM   #33
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Rubber plugs often have a nut or T handle that is used to expand and tighten the plug in place. I you loosen that the handle should turn easily
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Old 03-11-2021, 02:52 PM   #34
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Okay, guys, there is a 100% consensus that I need to install new valves. I will be doing so, soon. I have plenty of real estateon the seachest wall above those two decrepit valves. I have learned here that the installation is really not that much of a big deal especially with the great access I have. Thanks so much, everyone, for taking the time to provide your insights.

One last question: what are your thoughts on installing them while in the water. I can glue the backing plate in place, get the flange ready to bolt to the plate with the ball valve mounted, drill the center hole for the water intake, and quickly, very quickly bolt the assembly to the backing plate. Crazy idea?
I know you will do it on the hard, but question for you : your sea chest is pretty deep. Could you physically reach the mushroom fitting even if doing in the water? Just curious
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Old 03-11-2021, 05:04 PM   #35
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Yeah, pretty much I am able to reach far down inside the seachest, certainly as far as the old seacocks.
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I know you will do it on the hard, but question for you : your sea chest is pretty deep. Could you physically reach the mushroom fitting even if doing in the water? Just curious
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Old 03-11-2021, 05:42 PM   #36
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catalinajack and I have virtually the same boat. I replaced my through hulls/seacocks while the boat was hauled. With the cover off the seachest, I could reach all the through hulls from the top.
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Old 03-11-2021, 09:26 PM   #37
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BTW - I have total sea chest envy. Total boat porn.

Peter
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Old 03-11-2021, 09:50 PM   #38
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When an SV series seacock is left in the closed position, the rubber expands into the opening and eventually a bump forms. This bump prevents it from easily turning. Some people would sand down the bump to make it easier to turn. You can try that but your seacocks are so old I really recommend replacing them. The rubber is probably really hard and brittle by now.
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Old 03-11-2021, 10:04 PM   #39
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When an SV series seacock is left in the closed position, the rubber expands into the opening and eventually a bump forms. This bump prevents it from easily turning. Some people would sand down the bump to make it easier to turn. You can try that but your seacocks are so old I really recommend replacing them. The rubber is probably really hard and brittle by now.
Hi, Parks. Still living large off my investment in your company (Post 21)?

Seriously, hope all’s good.
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Old 03-11-2021, 11:06 PM   #40
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Hi, Parks. Still living large off my investment in your company (Post 21)?

Seriously, hope all’s good.
Thanks to you I’m living the high life!
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