Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-18-2020, 02:44 PM   #21
Arc
Guru
 
City: Long island
Vessel Model: Eastern
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 533
Buy high strength SS rod , thread the ends. If you want to use a cleat then have the tops welded and polished
Arc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2020, 09:42 PM   #22
Guru
 
City: Rochester, NY
Vessel Name: Hour Glass
Vessel Model: Chris Craft Catalina 381
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 5,727
I'd love to rig a riding sail, but I have no mast or anything to rig one from. For windy days where we sail exactly as Murray described, I'm thinking of dropping a drogue off the bow or doing a hammerlock Moor with a second anchor dropped under the bow at short scope to reduce the yaw.

Based on fastener strength concerns, it sounds like the answer is bollard with the nice big 1/2 inch bolts. I was avoiding calling it a samson post because it wouldn't be tied down to the keel.
rslifkin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2020, 03:55 AM   #23
TF Site Team
 
koliver's Avatar
 
City: Saltspring Island
Vessel Name: Retreat
Vessel Model: C&L 44
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,397
We are talking about a 38 ' boat here aren't we? This is totally over the top. The windlass, when installed, will have a decent cleat attached to it, which will be completely adequate.
__________________
Keith
koliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2020, 08:08 AM   #24
Guru
 
City: Belgium
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,781
Sampson post also allows you to run a warp port or starboard and direct it to wrap it around your horizontal capstan, to control the bow in heavy cross winds. Placement takes some finagling trying to consider rope rode, chain rode, p&s warping.

I installed one that looked the same as yours on my sport boat in the Persian Gulf. When I built the boat I had the builder glass in another layer of plywood behind it, so was completely encapsulated. Ran bedding material inside each of the 4 holes drilled as well.

Remember that Sampson's with heavy load on a fiberglass deck can work a bit so lots of flexible bedding material will go towards the long life of the wood underneath.

Plus they look really cool.
Mako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2020, 09:41 AM   #25
Guru
 
City: Rochester, NY
Vessel Name: Hour Glass
Vessel Model: Chris Craft Catalina 381
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 5,727
Quote:
Originally Posted by koliver View Post
We are talking about a 38 ' boat here aren't we? This is totally over the top. The windlass, when installed, will have a decent cleat attached to it, which will be completely adequate.
The Maxwell windlass I'm using doesn't include a cleat unfortunately. But yes, 38 foot boat, about 26k lbs fully loaded.

I like the thought of using the samson post to direct a line to the warping drum if ever needed. I'll have to see if I can come up with a placement for it that allow for that. Initially I was going to buy the windlass without the drum, but the version with it ended up being cheaper.

As far as load, the deck has an extra inch of core in this area, so by the time the bolts go through the pulpit and deck, it's about 7 inches. That should handle the side loads well I'd expect, given proper bedding up top. Basically it's going through a half inch of teak, a layer of glass, more wood (which will likely be replaced while I have the pulpit off, so exact material is to be determined), then the deck, so glass, about 2 inches of core, more glass, then I'll be adding an epoxied on stainless backing plate.
rslifkin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2020, 11:31 AM   #26
Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,121
A sampson post would require a much larger, stronger gauge backing plate, and stronger bolts (per previous discussions) because of the significant increased turning moment pressure vs the deck level cleat. The turning force at the top of an 18 inch post can be calculated (not by me!) and will tend to pull the inboard end of the post out of the deck. I second the use of the sampson post vs the cleat from a utility standpoint but question how well it will be installed.
Chrisjs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2020, 11:43 AM   #27
Guru
 
City: Rochester, NY
Vessel Name: Hour Glass
Vessel Model: Chris Craft Catalina 381
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 5,727
The post I'm looking at is only about 7 inches tall above the deck and has the bitts about 4.5 - 5 inches above the deck. So there's definitely more leverage than a cleat, but it shouldn't be an unmanageable amount.

Backing plate wise, I'm tempted to just make a single, large (1 sq ft or a bit more) backing plate that holds the pulpit bolts (originally just backed with washers), windlass bolts and bolts for the samson post. That plus the deck thickness in that area and having it all mounted through the pulpit should spread the load enough I'd expect.

I also intend to mount the post so that the anchoring loads would be in line with the longer dimension of the base plate, which should help to reduce stress on the bolts as well as better spread the loads into the pulpit from the base plate.
rslifkin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2020, 11:56 AM   #28
TF Site Team
 
FlyWright's Avatar
 
City: California Delta
Vessel Name: FlyWright
Vessel Model: 1977 Marshall Californian 34 LRC
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 13,694
Here's how I solved a similar issue...

The last photo is how my boat was equipped when I bought her.

I added a windlass and cleat mounted on 1/4" polished stainless plate secured with 1/2" threaded rods (cut off after the photo was taken). The chain tube is stainless steel sheet rolled and welded.

The top polished SS plate has large 1/2" nuts welded to the bottom to receive the threaded rods. Shallow holes were drilled in the top of pulpit to accommodate those nuts so the plate would lie flat on the teak.

The forward backing plate with the chain tube is for the pulpit and the aft backing plate is for the sampson post.
Attached Thumbnails
Anchor.jpg   pulpit base.jpg   Photo0129_001.jpg   FW Powerwinch.JPG  
__________________
My boat is my ark. It's my mobile treehouse and my floating fishing cabin. It's my retreat and my respite. Everyday I thank God I have a boat! -Al FJB

@DeltaBridges - 25 Delta Bridges in 25 Days
FlyWright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2020, 12:58 PM   #29
Guru
 
angus99's Avatar
 
City: Signal Mtn., TN
Vessel Name: Stella Maris
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,692
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWright View Post
Here's how I solved a similar issue...

The last photo is how my boat was equipped when I bought her.

I added a windlass and cleat mounted on 1/4" polished stainless plate secured with 1/2" threaded rods (cut off after the photo was taken). The chain tube is stainless steel sheet rolled and welded.

The top polished SS plate has large 1/2" nuts welded to the bottom to receive the threaded rods. Shallow holes were drilled in the top of pulpit to accommodate those nuts so the plate would lie flat on the teak.

The forward backing plate with the chain tube is for the pulpit and the aft backing plate is for the sampson post.
Thatís one clean anchor chain, Al! Did you use a toothbrush?
angus99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2020, 01:03 PM   #30
Guru
 
Benthic2's Avatar
 
City: Boston Area
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,360
If you were tying off to the cleats on the side of the pulpit, and they were sufficient, I think you may be over thinking this.

If all of this consternation is because the cleat you want only accepts a 5/16" bolt, I think I'd weld the cleat to a top plate and then bolt that to the pulpit with whatever size bolt lets you sleep well.
Benthic2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2020, 01:25 PM   #31
Guru
 
diver dave's Avatar
 
City: Palm Coast, FL
Vessel Name: Coquina
Vessel Model: Lagoon 380
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,459
Yes, u do want to wrap that first turn very low at the post. Keep all bolts in shear. Of course, in the heat of battle, this is not always done. So, the design has to assume high torque loads will be supported by only two bolts. This is easier to accomplish with a cleat; there is no option for a high tie off.

I am a bit surprised there are no reasonably sized cleats that take 3/8 or even 7/16Ē bolts??
diver dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2020, 01:42 PM   #32
TF Site Team
 
FlyWright's Avatar
 
City: California Delta
Vessel Name: FlyWright
Vessel Model: 1977 Marshall Californian 34 LRC
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 13,694
Quote:
Originally Posted by angus99 View Post
Thatís one clean anchor chain, Al! Did you use a toothbrush?
That was a shot when new after installation but, TBH, it still looks much the same today, 10 years later. Our California Delta mud has very good hold for anchoring but it's not sticky on the chain, pulpit and anchor like Chesapeake mud. Often my pulpit only requires a light toweling to clean up the 'splash zone' from the chain. The anchor and chain usually comes up clean.

I just hose the pulpit and roller periodically then towel dry but I don't fret about keeping is spotless. It just happens that way...
__________________
My boat is my ark. It's my mobile treehouse and my floating fishing cabin. It's my retreat and my respite. Everyday I thank God I have a boat! -Al FJB

@DeltaBridges - 25 Delta Bridges in 25 Days
FlyWright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2020, 02:14 PM   #33
Guru
 
City: Rochester, NY
Vessel Name: Hour Glass
Vessel Model: Chris Craft Catalina 381
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 5,727
I'll have to take another look for cleats, but pretty much everything I've seen in 10 or 12 inch takes 4x 5/16 bolts. But the earlier points about a cleat base compressing into wood are a concern, so I'd likely want a plate under the cleat, much like the post would have. I'll have to do a little more research today and think about sticking the cleat to a bolted down plate.
rslifkin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2020, 02:20 PM   #34
Guru
 
jleonard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,727
[QUOTEThe pulpit plus reinforced section of deck under it is just under 7 inches thick. Nobody makes a 5/16" bolt that long,][/QUOTE]

McMaster-Carr has bolts that long and longer. And in stainless.
__________________
Jay Leonard

New Port Richey,Fl
jleonard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2020, 02:27 PM   #35
Guru
 
rgano's Avatar
 
City: Southport, FL near Panama City
Vessel Name: FROLIC
Vessel Model: Mainship 30 Pilot II since 2015. GB-42 1986-2015. Former Unlimited Tonnage Master
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,488
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soo-Valley View Post
5/16 stainless threaded rod came to mind
Me too. Take it and and some SS nuts to fit to a welder and he can make you any length bolt you want by welding the nut to the threaded rod and simply grinding its top flat.
__________________
Rich Gano
FROLIC (2005 MainShip 30 Pilot II)
Panama City area
rgano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2020, 02:41 PM   #36
Guru
 
City: Rochester, NY
Vessel Name: Hour Glass
Vessel Model: Chris Craft Catalina 381
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 5,727
I'll check McMaster for bolts. For some reason I didn't think to check there before. A quick measurement (at the boat now) puts me at 6 inches plus backing plate, cleat base and any top plate I add.

That 6 inch thickness is 3 inches of pulpit and 3 inches of deck. Turns out the deck is thicker than I thought in that spot.

So if I find long enough bolts and use a cleat, do you recommend a plate under it to spread the load to the teak better?
rslifkin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2020, 02:45 PM   #37
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 15,713
Greetings,
Mr. rs. Plate underneath? Absolutely!
__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2020, 03:01 PM   #38
Guru
 
City: Rochester, NY
Vessel Name: Hour Glass
Vessel Model: Chris Craft Catalina 381
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 5,727
Quote:
Originally Posted by RT Firefly View Post
Greetings,
Mr. rs. Plate underneath? Absolutely!
A plate under the deck is a definite. A post would have a base plate on top of the deck as well. You agree that adding a plate between a cleat and the top of the deck is worth it?
rslifkin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2020, 03:34 PM   #39
Guru
 
Fish53's Avatar
 
City: Rockport
Vessel Name: Ana
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,012
I wouldn't worry much about leverage against the bollard as when used properly the first turns should be wrapped a couple of times around the bollard at the base. The "bollard" you pictured is commonly known as a mooring post as that's it's primary role. The turns around the base of the post provide increased friction and less sharp of a bend in the line where it takes the most strain. 5/16 is probably fine as most of the strain against the bolts is in shear rather than tension. I would stay away from threaded rod as the full thread weakens the fastener, better would be unthreaded rod and a die to only thread the portion receiving the nuts. There are custom shops that will make any fastener you want as I assume you'd like a flat head at the deck for appearance and to seal the base plate as most have a countersink for a flat head.
Fish53 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2020, 03:39 PM   #40
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 15,713
Greetings,
Mr. rs.



__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012