Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-21-2019, 02:17 PM   #21
Valued Technical Contributor
 
DavidM's Avatar
 
City: Litchfield, Ct
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6,427
The fill and soak method works but not as well as continuous circulation. Circulation brings fresh acid to the site of the scale and removes insoluble organic matter that gets in the way.


In my early career we only used fill and soak on huge central station power boilers. Those never had thick scale, just a lot of it due to their size and fill and soak worked fine.



David
DavidM is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2019, 02:26 PM   #22
Guru
 
ranger58sb's Avatar
 
City: Annapolis
Vessel Model: 58' Sedan Bridge
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 6,338
Quote:
Originally Posted by w8n4sun View Post
D'oh, that was a dumb question!
Not so dumb. You can guess how I learned that answer.



-Chris
__________________
Chesapeake Bay, USA
ranger58sb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2019, 02:34 PM   #23
Moderator Emeritus
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 17,448
Quote:
Originally Posted by djmarchand View Post
The fill and soak method works but not as well as continuous circulation. Circulation brings fresh acid to the site of the scale and removes insoluble organic matter that gets in the way.


In my early career we only used fill and soak on huge central station power boilers. Those never had thick scale, just a lot of it due to their size and fill and soak worked fine.



David
Yes the recirculating method is better, but if I have to pull my impellers in order to do it that way, I won’t do it. So I can literally do it in 5 minutes per engine with the soak method then I will do it. I did see positive results from the soak method.
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you arenít one, there is no explanation possible.
Comodave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2019, 03:06 PM   #24
Guru
 
CaptTom's Avatar
 
City: Southern Maine
Vessel Model: Prairie 36 Coastal Cruiser
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,466
Quote:
Originally Posted by MV Wanderlust View Post
...Instead of paying $80 per gallon for Barnacle Buster, I go to Home Depot and pick up a gallon of phosphoric acid in the paint department for about $17.
Look carefully at the % of phosphoric acid in those HD cleaners. Could be 25% or less. You can buy a gallon of 85% phosphoric acid on Amazon for $40. Still a fraction of the cost of BB and a gallon goes a LONG way if you dilute it to the same concentration as BB.
CaptTom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2019, 01:25 PM   #25
Senior Member
 
Scottwb96's Avatar
 
City: Burien
Vessel Name: Star Weird
Vessel Model: Camargue
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 369
hey neighbor!

Hey, I know you!
Scottwb96 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2019, 01:27 PM   #26
Veteran Member
 
emilanderson's Avatar
 
City: Seattle
Vessel Name: Tusen Takk
Vessel Model: Beneteau Swift Trawler 44
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 26
Newbie question here... I have always had by boat "flushed" after going through the locks here in Seattle. Now I am in the salt. This doesnt strike me as an annual flush maintenance item... or is it? This sounds more like a eery 3rd year deal. Trying to figure out if I need another homemade maintenance set for my wife to complain about. ha!
emilanderson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2019, 02:12 PM   #27
Guru
 
ben2go's Avatar
 
City: Upstate,SC
Vessel Name: Shipoopi
Vessel Model: derilic sailboat
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,866
Quote:
Originally Posted by emilanderson View Post
Newbie question here... I have always had by boat "flushed" after going through the locks here in Seattle. Now I am in the salt. This doesnt strike me as an annual flush maintenance item... or is it? This sounds more like a eery 3rd year deal. Trying to figure out if I need another homemade maintenance set for my wife to complain about. ha!



Two things that cause issues are salt build up and marine growth. I'm sure there are others. Depending on how much you use your boat and how fast salt and marine growth builds up, it could be years. Down here in the south east boats need cleaning quite frequently to keep growth off. Monthly at least. I would do a barnacle buster type product at least every spring and maybe again in the late fall, but this is for my area. Your area maybe vastly different.
__________________
This is my signature line. There are many like it but this one is mine.

What a pain in the transom.

ben2go is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2019, 05:45 PM   #28
Guru
 
rgano's Avatar
 
City: Southport, FL near Panama City
Vessel Name: FROLIC
Vessel Model: Mainship 30 Pilot II since 2015. GB-42 1986-2015. Former Unlimited Tonnage Master
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,488
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhays View Post
I started flushing the raw water system with fresh water after every use. My hope is that it will reduce the buildup of deposits and rust.
The previous owner and I did just that, and three years after I bought the boat, I had a hose burst just downstream of the raw water pump. A BB flush put all kinds of coloration in the bucket. Maybe FW flushing helped, but it certainly did not eliminate it. I will be flushing at least every two years.
__________________
Rich Gano
FROLIC (2005 MainShip 30 Pilot II)
Panama City area
rgano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2019, 07:01 PM   #29
Guru
 
firehoser75's Avatar
 
City: Nanaimo
Vessel Name: former owner of "Pilitak"
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 37
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,624
Freshwater flushing (as often as possible - after every use is "best") will delay the need for removing all saltwater based cooling items for servicing. If you have an aftercooler, it should be serviced every 2-3 years (off the engine) if you don't FW flush. This off the engine servicing entails: removal of fuel cooler, gear oil cooler, aftercooler, and heat exchanger; acid cleaning of the saltwater side; pressure testing; proper reassembly of the items (especially the aftercooler - new O rings, everything well greased to reduce future corrosion); reinstallation of the previous items; and new coolant.
Just running BB through will not ensure that "all is well" for the long term. All of these items can be subject to "failure" where leaking can occur possibly resulting in raw water in your transmission, or raw water in the coolant, or raw water in the air side of your engine. Pressure testing should find problems before they can cause "real issues". Also, the air side of the aftercooler is not touched at all by the BB solution, and it needs cleaned as well or your engine can become "air starved".

Not saying that BB (or flushing with other products) is a bad idea, just trying to "look at the whole picture".
Tom
__________________
Tom
Nanaimo, BC
firehoser75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2019, 11:44 PM   #30
Guru
 
Steve DAntonio's Avatar


 
City: Deltaville
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 879
Quote:
Originally Posted by porman View Post
Our engines get flushed with fresh water during the 2 hour trip from the locks to our slip in Lake Washington. This winter I will be removing and checking the heat exchangers, oil coolers, exhaust elbows, and aftercoolers for the first time in their life after 17 years and 2000 engine hours. I'll report on what I find.
Keep in mind, fresh water will cause a coating to form on zinc anodes, essentially rendering them inert. The coating can be cleaned off using a ScotchBrite pad, however that requires removal of pencil anodes, at which point you might simply chose to replace it unless it's like new. Hull anodes can of course be cleaned by a diver. Until cleaned their effectiveness will be diminished. Alternatively, you can use aluminum anodes, whcih are immune to this phenomenon.

More on the subject here https://stevedmarineconsulting.com/g...ode-selection/
__________________
Steve D'Antonio Marine Consulting, Inc.
https://www.stevedmarineconsulting.com
Steve DAntonio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2019, 11:48 PM   #31
Guru
 
dhays's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 9,045
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgano View Post
The previous owner and I did just that, and three years after I bought the boat, I had a hose burst just downstream of the raw water pump. A BB flush put all kinds of coloration in the bucket. Maybe FW flushing helped, but it certainly did not eliminate it. I will be flushing at least every two years.

Good input. thanks.
__________________
Regards,

Dave
SPOT page
dhays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2019, 11:49 PM   #32
Guru
 
dhays's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 9,045
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve DAntonio View Post
Keep in mind, fresh water will cause a coating to form on zinc anodes, essentially rendering them inert. The coating can be cleaned off using a ScotchBrite pad, however that requires removal of pencil anodes, at which point you might simply chose to replace it unless it's like new. Hull anodes can of course be cleaned by a diver. Until cleaned their effectiveness will be diminished. Alternatively, you can use aluminum anodes, whcih are immune to this phenomenon.



More on the subject here https://stevedmarineconsulting.com/g...ode-selection/


Yeah, I did switch to aluminum pencil anodes for the engine now that Iím during a fresh water flush every time I get back to the dock.
__________________
Regards,

Dave
SPOT page
dhays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2019, 09:03 AM   #33
Member
 
City: Green Cove Springs
Vessel Name: Sovereignty
Vessel Model: Kadey-Krogen Manatee
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 11
Rydlyme

Use Rydlyme. Works well on engine (raw and heat exchanger) as well as A/C and water heater. Also takes rust stains off fiberglass. Great chemical, but difficult to find in gallon containers.
captaindah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2019, 09:49 AM   #34
Guru
 
rgano's Avatar
 
City: Southport, FL near Panama City
Vessel Name: FROLIC
Vessel Model: Mainship 30 Pilot II since 2015. GB-42 1986-2015. Former Unlimited Tonnage Master
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,488
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve DAntonio View Post
Keep in mind, fresh water will cause a coating to form on zinc anodes, essentially rendering them inert. The coating can be cleaned off using a ScotchBrite pad, however that requires removal of pencil anodes, at which point you might simply chose to replace it unless it's like new. Hull anodes can of course be cleaned by a diver. Until cleaned their effectiveness will be diminished. Alternatively, you can use aluminum anodes, whcih are immune to this phenomenon.

More on the subject here https://stevedmarineconsulting.com/g...ode-selection/
I religiously freshwater rinse my Yanmar 6LPA after every run but never did with my Ford-Lehman 120s. With zinc anodes in both boats there was always a gooey brownish coating collecting on the zincs (checked every 90 days or less on both boats). I cleaned it off and either changed or just reinstalled the anodes depending upon condition. IRT the Yanmar, since it sits long periods with freshwater in contact with the anodes and relatively brief periods underway in salt, I figured it should be treated as a freshwater boat and switched to Secure Core AL anoded. Same brownish goo collects except on the fuel cooler and intercooler zinc which being high on the engine are not immersed in water once the engine is stopped and rarely need changing. To be candid, I am not sure whether the zinc anodes protecting the system during running in salt or the AL anoded protecting during non-operating periods are better for the engine. One wonders if the dry-during-idleness anodes should not be zinc and the rest AL.
__________________
Rich Gano
FROLIC (2005 MainShip 30 Pilot II)
Panama City area
rgano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2019, 05:44 PM   #35
Senior Member
 
Southern Boater's Avatar
 
City: Tasmania
Vessel Model: Sea Ranger 46
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by firehoser75 View Post
Freshwater flushing (as often as possible - after every use is "best") will delay the need for removing all saltwater based cooling items for servicing. If you have an aftercooler, it should be serviced every 2-3 years (off the engine) if you don't FW flush. This off the engine servicing entails: removal of fuel cooler, gear oil cooler, aftercooler, and heat exchanger; acid cleaning of the saltwater side; pressure testing; proper reassembly of the items (especially the aftercooler - new O rings, everything well greased to reduce future corrosion); reinstallation of the previous items; and new coolant.
Just running BB through will not ensure that "all is well" for the long term. All of these items can be subject to "failure" where leaking can occur possibly resulting in raw water in your transmission, or raw water in the coolant, or raw water in the air side of your engine. Pressure testing should find problems before they can cause "real issues". Also, the air side of the aftercooler is not touched at all by the BB solution, and it needs cleaned as well or your engine can become "air starved".

Not saying that BB (or flushing with other products) is a bad idea, just trying to "look at the whole picture".
Tom
You have raised some very valid points Tom, there is no substitute for a strip down and pressure testing.
Southern Boater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2019, 10:08 AM   #36
Guru
 
Steve DAntonio's Avatar


 
City: Deltaville
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 879
The only drawback I have found to the aluminum anodes is the pencil version does expand a bit, making it difficult to remove. Where that happens I have instructed owners to stay with zinc if in salt water. Since the engine and hull are essentially in 'different bodies of water', there is no issue with mixing anodes types. While not recommended, if you do mix Al and Zn in the same body of water it's not harmful per se, with the result being that the Al tends to protect the Zn, and when the Al is gone, the Zn is then consumed.
__________________
Steve D'Antonio Marine Consulting, Inc.
https://www.stevedmarineconsulting.com
Steve DAntonio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2019, 10:33 AM   #37
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 9,491
For after coolers, removal, manual cleaning and pressure testing is preferred. Why? A year or two in a marine engine rebuild shop will provide plenty of examples as blocked up air side and /or perils of water entering engine due to leaky ACs or bad exhaust elbows.

BB may be cheaper in the short run for your water side of the AC, but periodic removal is advisable in the long run. Especially to get the air side clean.
sunchaser is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2019, 12:08 PM   #38
Guru
 
firehoser75's Avatar
 
City: Nanaimo
Vessel Name: former owner of "Pilitak"
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 37
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,624
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser View Post
For after coolers, removal, manual cleaning and pressure testing is preferred. Why? A year or two in a marine engine rebuild shop will provide plenty of examples as blocked up air side and /or perils of water entering engine due to leaky ACs or bad exhaust elbows.

BB may be cheaper in the short run for your water side of the AC, but periodic removal is advisable in the long run. Especially to get the air side clean.
One more reason. If you don't control the corrosion that will develop between the various metals used in the construction of most aftercoolers, you will be replacing it WAY sooner than would otherwise be necessary. These are expensive items!! When badly corroded, the insert bundle (core) maybe next to impossible to remove (or badly damaged by removal), with the O ring sealing surfaces becoming badly pitted and therefore unable to seal out the salt water! Just using an "acid like" flush will not prevent this nor will it clean the "air side" of the aftercooler.

As far as I can see, there is no way to avoid (unless you just want to buy new aftercooler(s)) a proper "off engine" servicing every 2- 4 years if you want your aftercooler to perform properly and to last. Have a look at sbmar.com and search for "aftercooler" and you will see what I mean.
__________________
Tom
Nanaimo, BC
firehoser75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2019, 12:11 PM   #39
Moderator Emeritus
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 17,448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve DAntonio View Post
The only drawback I have found to the aluminum anodes is the pencil version does expand a bit, making it difficult to remove. Where that happens I have instructed owners to stay with zinc if in salt water. Since the engine and hull are essentially in 'different bodies of water', there is no issue with mixing anodes types. While not recommended, if you do mix Al and Zn in the same body of water it's not harmful per se, with the result being that the Al tends to protect the Zn, and when the Al is gone, the Zn is then consumed.
Last year we had no problem getting the old aluminum anode out of the heat exchanger but this year we saw what you said, the anode seemed to swell up a bit and wouldnít come out. We had to pull the end cap off and push it out from the inside. Not a big deal but I was wondering what had happened. Thanks for the info, now ai understand why it did that.
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you arenít one, there is no explanation possible.
Comodave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2019, 04:08 PM   #40
Guru
 
catalinajack's Avatar
 
City: Edgewater, MD
Vessel Name: Catalina Jack
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,294
I got tired of dealing with swelled anodes (zinc and aluminum) in my exchangers. I simply changed to 3/8 inch anodes rather than using 1/2 inchers. Problem solved although they need to be changed more often. I'm okay with that given the trade-off.
catalinajack is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012