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Old 12-16-2019, 08:27 PM   #1
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Fiberglassing over seacock flange

Hey, is glassing over a seacock flange normal? I feel like a PO did it to strengthen it...but now it’s my mess to deal with. I would like to cut away the glass to see what I’m dealing with, but worried it may be the only thing holding the seacocks in place. Any suggestions?
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Old 12-16-2019, 09:07 PM   #2
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That is a bit strange. I would be more comfortable if I could see the fittings. I know that if they were S/S you definitely would not want them like that due to crevice corrosion. I am not sure if bronze suffers from something like that or not. But it would be nice to be able to see how they are secured.
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Old 12-16-2019, 09:18 PM   #3
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Newer standards call for a backing plate to be glassed or epoxied to the hull with the seacock mounted to it or through it. That might have been acceptable before the new standards went into practice.

When I bought my boat, I had Zimmerman's yard do one through hull to the new standards, since it was leaking anyway. It is G10 epoxied to the hull, drilled and tapped for the seacock mounting flange. My plan is to slowly finish all of them to the new standard as it is convenient for me.
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Old 12-16-2019, 11:41 PM   #4
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Glassing over the flange isn't a great idea, but then neither are gate valves....
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Old 12-17-2019, 03:49 AM   #5
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My marine trader was like that
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Old 12-17-2019, 07:37 AM   #6
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Glassing over the flange isn't a great idea, but then neither are gate valves....

That's what i thought too. It looks to me that all of those seacocks need to be replaced. If you are going to replace them, no point in not doing it the right way.


Even ball valves, though not ideal, would be better than gate valves.
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Old 12-17-2019, 07:40 AM   #7
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Is it normal? Normal can be a lot of things.

It's not a method you'll find mentioned in the ABYC standards, which are pretty complete regarding installation of thru-hulls.

There's not much about those configurations that's redeeming. From the gate valves to the cover-up with glass, they border on scary. I'd have those on the "to-do" upgrade list at next haul.

There's a great site with very specific and excellent "best practice" instruction on how to properly install a thru hull. HERE
A clean, proper installation is within the reach of a DIY with mechanical skills and some experience.
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Old 12-17-2019, 09:10 AM   #8
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Those photos scare me. I bet those gate valves won’t even close. The one ball valve looks like a cheap hardware store valve. The one seacock looks like a tapered cone valve that hasn’t been serviced in years. Next haul out I think you should replace all of those valves with real flanged seacocks.

My choice would be a Groco or Apollo seacock mounded on one of Groco’s backing blocks.
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Old 12-17-2019, 09:49 AM   #9
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Guessing those gate valves are above the waterline. Not an emergency repair but I would replace them. The one seacock that appears to be main raw water intake looks very corroded. At a minimum it should be disassembled and cleaned. (Out of the water)

I would take a dremel and start grinding through a corner to see what's underneath. If there is a wood backing plate in good condition, just fill in with resin. If nothing, replace.
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Old 12-17-2019, 09:49 AM   #10
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I’d plan on replacing all the thru hulls, seacocks, clamps and bonding wires (out of the water). It looks like you have reasonable access but it needs to be done.

The two gate valves should be done ASAP. They’re probably brass and shouldn’t be used on a boat below the water line or where sea water is involved. Brass suffers from dezincification. The zinc sacrificially corrodes leaving behind a weak valve. We had a gate valve on a 1966 ChrisCraft and the valve stem disintegrated.

Here’s a nipple that was brass that was suppose to be bronze that suffered from dezincification. This was below the water line and fortunately I found it before it completely failed.
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Old 12-17-2019, 12:16 PM   #11
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Bluntly, these valves need to go ASAP. There is no way to tell when they will fail - one of the Steve D articles linked below shows de-zinc-ification similar to the wasted barbed nipple pic in a previous post on this thread. It cannot be inspected unless disassembled. In the words of Dirty Harry "You have to ask yourself, do I feel lucky?"

HopCar's post shows the best seacock arrangement (versus a straight mushroom post with inline valve - Steve D goes into this further). Maerin's post includes a link to how to install. If you need more convincing, here's an article from Mr. Boat Wiki himself (Steve D)

Finally, another article from Steve D on hose selection, but also has decent pictures on using a manifold to consolidate casual intakes into a single thru-hull/strainer.

Bottom line - it's time to replace.
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Old 12-17-2019, 11:39 PM   #12
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Thanks. Someone called it correctly, I can’t even close the raw water seacock. I’m replacing every through hole ASAP. Anyone know of a good yard where I can do the work myself in the Seattle area?
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Old 12-18-2019, 06:30 AM   #13
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"My choice would be a Groco or Apollo seacock mounded on one of Groco’s backing blocks."

AND thru bolted .

https://shop.marshfasteners.com/SILI.../products/588/
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Old 12-18-2019, 09:09 AM   #14
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Quote:
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"My choice would be a Groco or Apollo seacock mounded on one of Groco’s backing blocks."

AND thru bolted .

https://shop.marshfasteners.com/SILI.../products/588/
I respectfully disagree. The Groco backing plates, if properly bonded with epoxy or fiberglassed to the hull, including fillets around the circumference, are considered by the experts I consulted to be the equal of through-bolting. Also, if you’re using the Groco through hull and flange (see HopCar’s post above), the NPT threads match each other (unlike most older installations which try to force-fit both straight and tapered threads) and they take a much deeper bite. This deeper connection adds considerable strength to the overall installation.
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Old 12-18-2019, 09:28 AM   #15
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Greetings,
I don't know if this has been mentioned but the glass over is probably factory direct.
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Old 12-18-2019, 09:42 AM   #16
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Thanks. Someone called it correctly, I can’t even close the raw water seacock. I’m replacing every through hole ASAP. Anyone know of a good yard where I can do the work myself in the Seattle area?
Canal Boatyard in Ballard is a good diy.

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Old 12-18-2019, 10:19 AM   #17
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I respectfully disagree. The Groco backing plates, if properly bonded with epoxy or fiberglassed to the hull, including fillets around the circumference, are considered by the experts I consulted to be the equal of through-bolting.
Agree with Angus99's comments. I am re-locating through hulls as part of my refit. I really appreciated the previous links to how-to as they solved the question on whether to thru-bolt. I really didn't want extra penetrations. In the end, what got me over the line was the threaded mushroom thru-hull provides significant structure and strength. No need to thru-bolt. The Groco backing plates are fine. At least that's the decision I went with.

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Old 12-18-2019, 10:47 AM   #18
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Peter, When you bed the backing plates in epoxy, put bolts in the threaded holes to prevent the epoxy from getting into the threads. Once the epoxy hardens just back the bolts out and you’ve got nice clean threads.
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Old 12-18-2019, 11:55 AM   #19
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Peter, When you bed the backing plates in epoxy, put bolts in the threaded holes to prevent the epoxy from getting into the threads. Once the epoxy hardens just back the bolts out and you’ve got nice clean threads.
Thanks HopCar. I'm putting my order to gather in next day or so. I'm fairly new to TF. Joined a few months ago to get info like this. I really appreciate professionals like yourself contributing. I look forward to doing business with you! I'd never heard of you guys before - Peggy Hall gave y'all a thumbs up. Good enough for me.
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Old 12-18-2019, 12:08 PM   #20
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I had only 1 valve that was glassed over and not done very well either. I chiseled the fiberglass away and removed the thru hull. It was not in a good area and would never be able to be closed in an emergency. Some fiberglass work may be required after you remove it. I am replacing 4 on 1 side that are below the water line and no valves on them?? The Groco valves and backing plates are replacing the existing.
Does anyone know which is better, using SS ball valves or what ever the other ball is made of?? Planning on the SS unless someone knows better.
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