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12-16-2019, 08:27 PM
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#1
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Veteran Member
City: Shilshole Bay Marina
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 32
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Fiberglassing over seacock flange
Hey, is glassing over a seacock flange normal? I feel like a PO did it to strengthen it...but now it’s my mess to deal with. I would like to cut away the glass to see what I’m dealing with, but worried it may be the only thing holding the seacocks in place. Any suggestions?
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12-16-2019, 09:07 PM
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#2
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Moderator Emeritus
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 21,187
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That is a bit strange. I would be more comfortable if I could see the fittings. I know that if they were S/S you definitely would not want them like that due to crevice corrosion. I am not sure if bronze suffers from something like that or not. But it would be nice to be able to see how they are secured.
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Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you aren’t one, there is no explanation possible.
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12-16-2019, 09:18 PM
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#3
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Guru
City: Kenai, Alaska
Vessel Name: Melanie Rose
Vessel Model: 1999 Willard PH
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,236
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Newer standards call for a backing plate to be glassed or epoxied to the hull with the seacock mounted to it or through it. That might have been acceptable before the new standards went into practice.
When I bought my boat, I had Zimmerman's yard do one through hull to the new standards, since it was leaking anyway. It is G10 epoxied to the hull, drilled and tapped for the seacock mounting flange. My plan is to slowly finish all of them to the new standard as it is convenient for me.
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12-16-2019, 11:41 PM
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#4
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Guru
City: San Francisco
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,094
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Glassing over the flange isn't a great idea, but then neither are gate valves....
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12-17-2019, 03:49 AM
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#5
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Guru
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,181
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My marine trader was like that
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12-17-2019, 07:37 AM
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#6
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Guru
City: Carrabelle, FL
Vessel Name: Morgan
Vessel Model: '05 Mainship 40T
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DDW
Glassing over the flange isn't a great idea, but then neither are gate valves....
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That's what i thought too. It looks to me that all of those seacocks need to be replaced. If you are going to replace them, no point in not doing it the right way.
Even ball valves, though not ideal, would be better than gate valves.
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12-17-2019, 07:40 AM
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#7
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Guru
City: East Coast
Vessel Name: M/V Maerin (Sold)
Vessel Model: Solo 4303
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 886
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Is it normal? Normal can be a lot of things.
It's not a method you'll find mentioned in the ABYC standards, which are pretty complete regarding installation of thru-hulls.
There's not much about those configurations that's redeeming. From the gate valves to the cover-up with glass, they border on scary. I'd have those on the "to-do" upgrade list at next haul.
There's a great site with very specific and excellent "best practice" instruction on how to properly install a thru hull. HERE
A clean, proper installation is within the reach of a DIY with mechanical skills and some experience.
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12-17-2019, 09:10 AM
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#8
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Guru
City: Miami Florida
Vessel Name: Possum
Vessel Model: Ellis 28
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,307
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Those photos scare me. I bet those gate valves won’t even close. The one ball valve looks like a cheap hardware store valve. The one seacock looks like a tapered cone valve that hasn’t been serviced in years. Next haul out I think you should replace all of those valves with real flanged seacocks.
My choice would be a Groco or Apollo seacock mounded on one of Groco’s backing blocks.
__________________
Parks Masterson
Retired from Hopkins-Carter Marine Supply
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12-17-2019, 09:49 AM
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#9
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Guru
City: Boston
Vessel Name: Adelante
Vessel Model: IG 30
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,609
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Guessing those gate valves are above the waterline. Not an emergency repair but I would replace them. The one seacock that appears to be main raw water intake looks very corroded. At a minimum it should be disassembled and cleaned. (Out of the water)
I would take a dremel and start grinding through a corner to see what's underneath. If there is a wood backing plate in good condition, just fill in with resin. If nothing, replace.
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12-17-2019, 09:49 AM
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#10
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TF Site Team
City: Jacksonville
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,682
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I’d plan on replacing all the thru hulls, seacocks, clamps and bonding wires (out of the water). It looks like you have reasonable access but it needs to be done.
The two gate valves should be done ASAP. They’re probably brass and shouldn’t be used on a boat below the water line or where sea water is involved. Brass suffers from dezincification. The zinc sacrificially corrodes leaving behind a weak valve. We had a gate valve on a 1966 ChrisCraft and the valve stem disintegrated.
Here’s a nipple that was brass that was suppose to be bronze that suffered from dezincification. This was below the water line and fortunately I found it before it completely failed.
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12-17-2019, 12:16 PM
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#11
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Guru
City: Saint Petersburg
Vessel Name: Weebles
Vessel Model: 1970 Willard 36 Trawler
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 7,179
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Bluntly, these valves need to go ASAP. There is no way to tell when they will fail - one of the Steve D articles linked below shows de-zinc-ification similar to the wasted barbed nipple pic in a previous post on this thread. It cannot be inspected unless disassembled. In the words of Dirty Harry "You have to ask yourself, do I feel lucky?"
HopCar's post shows the best seacock arrangement (versus a straight mushroom post with inline valve - Steve D goes into this further). Maerin's post includes a link to how to install. I f you need more convincing, here's an article from Mr. Boat Wiki himself (Steve D)
Finally, another article from Steve D on hose selection, but also has decent pictures on using a manifold to consolidate casual intakes into a single thru-hull/strainer.
Bottom line - it's time to replace.
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Cruising our 1970 Willard 36 trawler from California to Florida
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12-17-2019, 11:39 PM
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#12
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Veteran Member
City: Shilshole Bay Marina
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 32
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Thanks. Someone called it correctly, I can’t even close the raw water seacock. I’m replacing every through hole ASAP. Anyone know of a good yard where I can do the work myself in the Seattle area?
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12-18-2019, 09:09 AM
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#14
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Guru
City: Signal Mtn., TN
Vessel Name: Stella Maris
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,742
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FF
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I respectfully disagree. The Groco backing plates, if properly bonded with epoxy or fiberglassed to the hull, including fillets around the circumference, are considered by the experts I consulted to be the equal of through-bolting. Also, if you’re using the Groco through hull and flange (see HopCar’s post above), the NPT threads match each other (unlike most older installations which try to force-fit both straight and tapered threads) and they take a much deeper bite. This deeper connection adds considerable strength to the overall installation.
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12-18-2019, 09:28 AM
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#15
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Enigma
City: Slicker?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,565
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Greetings,
I don't know if this has been mentioned but the glass over is probably factory direct.
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RTF
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12-18-2019, 09:42 AM
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#16
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TF Site Team
City: Jacksonville
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanna-b
Thanks. Someone called it correctly, I can’t even close the raw water seacock. I’m replacing every through hole ASAP. Anyone know of a good yard where I can do the work myself in the Seattle area?
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Canal Boatyard in Ballard is a good diy.
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12-18-2019, 10:19 AM
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#17
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Guru
City: Saint Petersburg
Vessel Name: Weebles
Vessel Model: 1970 Willard 36 Trawler
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 7,179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angus99
I respectfully disagree. The Groco backing plates, if properly bonded with epoxy or fiberglassed to the hull, including fillets around the circumference, are considered by the experts I consulted to be the equal of through-bolting.
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Agree with Angus99's comments. I am re-locating through hulls as part of my refit. I really appreciated the previous links to how-to as they solved the question on whether to thru-bolt. I really didn't want extra penetrations. In the end, what got me over the line was the threaded mushroom thru-hull provides significant structure and strength. No need to thru-bolt. The Groco backing plates are fine. At least that's the decision I went with.
Peter
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Cruising our 1970 Willard 36 trawler from California to Florida
Join our Instagram page @MVWeebles to follow along
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12-18-2019, 10:47 AM
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#18
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Guru
City: Miami Florida
Vessel Name: Possum
Vessel Model: Ellis 28
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,307
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Peter, When you bed the backing plates in epoxy, put bolts in the threaded holes to prevent the epoxy from getting into the threads. Once the epoxy hardens just back the bolts out and you’ve got nice clean threads.
__________________
Parks Masterson
Retired from Hopkins-Carter Marine Supply
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12-18-2019, 11:55 AM
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#19
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Guru
City: Saint Petersburg
Vessel Name: Weebles
Vessel Model: 1970 Willard 36 Trawler
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 7,179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HopCar
Peter, When you bed the backing plates in epoxy, put bolts in the threaded holes to prevent the epoxy from getting into the threads. Once the epoxy hardens just back the bolts out and you’ve got nice clean threads.
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Thanks HopCar. I'm putting my order to gather in next day or so. I'm fairly new to TF. Joined a few months ago to get info like this. I really appreciate professionals like yourself contributing. I look forward to doing business with you! I'd never heard of you guys before - Peggy Hall gave y'all a thumbs up. Good enough for me.
__________________
_______________________________________
Cruising our 1970 Willard 36 trawler from California to Florida
Join our Instagram page @MVWeebles to follow along
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12-18-2019, 12:08 PM
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#20
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Veteran Member
City: Chesapeake
Vessel Name: Voyager 3
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen Manatee
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 59
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I had only 1 valve that was glassed over and not done very well either. I chiseled the fiberglass away and removed the thru hull. It was not in a good area and would never be able to be closed in an emergency. Some fiberglass work may be required after you remove it. I am replacing 4 on 1 side that are below the water line and no valves on them?? The Groco valves and backing plates are replacing the existing.
Does anyone know which is better, using SS ball valves or what ever the other ball is made of?? Planning on the SS unless someone knows better.
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