Fiberglass Repair Opinion

[bucketlist1]

We have a 2018 R 27 Ranger Tug that has 2 - 12 '' long hull cracks , port side , about 1/3 back from the bow . We believe it was from blocking . The closest crack to the keel ,is split open like someone took a can opener to it . Some people think water in the crack froze in the boathouse .

I bought the boat in June , and the dealer thinks the hull can be fixed from the outside only . I said it needs to be fixed from the inside as well , and vacuum bagged .
I would like opinions on repairs . If you google '' R-27 Ranger Tug Lemon Aid '' you can see video of the cracks .

Any advice would be appreciated , Thanks Dave

 

[DNT99611]

I went to two different sites but could not get the video to play. I did find one picture of the crack. The damage will extend a lot more out than it first looks like and will take a really good glass man to fix. That being said it can be fixed. I have seen boats with three foot of the bow knocked off, cut in half and extended, major holes all repaired as good as new. The work will need to be done from both sides and anything in the way removed to do the work.

 

[DavidM]

I don't understand vacuum bagging. That is a boat building fiberglass layup technique that maximizes the glass to resin ratio. But you really don't care about that for a repair.

I suspect that it can be repaired from the outside if there is no inside structural damage. Evaluate that issue carefully.

David

 

[Comodave]

Theoretically the work can be done from the outside, but not on my boat. I would want it done with a 12:1 taper ratio. They need to grind it back until you get to solid glass. Then build up half from the inside and the other half from the outside. I would want epoxy used since it will bond better to the existing glass.

 

[bucketlist1]

I am worried about possible issues inside the hull . The hull is cored ( i found out ) which i think would cause more issues' with grinding back fiberglass thickness ? for the video to come up , you have to spell it'' Lemon Aid , R27 Ranger Tug ''

 

[Comodave]

The cored hull makes it more interesting. Maybe that is why they want to do it from the outside only. But my concern would be that the inner layer of fiberglass may be cracked also.

 

[SoWhat]

You are not dealing with a simple crack. According to your survey the hull has severe damage. "40” forward & 60” aft of the cracks had 60-100% moisture readings and delamination in areas."

Tape has been applied to the hull in some of the pics. I am guessing that's where the surveyor found high readings. The area includes the keel. That is a major structural repair and I suspect the liner will have to come out in order to determine if the keel is cracked. Maybe you can get a borescope in there.

I believe you posted the tale on https://www.rangertugtruth.com/rangertugstory
and had a lengthy discussion on the "Hull warranty ?" thread.
In retrospect a survey before the sale would have caught this problem. At this point, I would hire someone with expertise in Ranger 27's to make some trial cuts to see if there is any internal damage. That might determine your best repair approach.

 

[psneeld]

So far, disagree with much of what has been posted, both techniques and materials.

If you want a first class repair, find the top outfits in your area and get their suggestions/quotes.

I have done extensive glass work both on my own boats, but also on commercial boats. My assistance tow operation owner was going to scrap my towboat after the bow was crushed by a barge. I repaired it better than new and its still in service 10 years later.

I am pretty good, but know when to talk to the real pros.

 

[Bacchus]

I don't understand vacuum bagging. That is a boat building fiberglass layup technique that maximizes the glass to resin ratio. But you really don't care about that for a repair.

I suspect that it can be repaired from the outside if there is no inside structural damage. Evaluate that issue carefully.

David

DavidM
Isn't vac bagging also used with blisters and wet core to dry out?
Being cored may be the reason?
When I did a much smaller / simpler gel coat crack repair my yard guy strongly suggested 2 sided repair which we did and has been satisfactory.

 

[psneeld]

Vacuum bagging has become very common. Many repairs on cored/composite parts are vacuum bagged...many on the USCG helos I flew were vacuum bagged.

Large hull damage repairs are often made with polyester panels made on mold then glassed in from one side if the other is inaccessible. Maybe not preferred, but several of my repair books discuss it.

 

[SoWhat]

OP posted complete history and survey on https://www.rangertugtruth.com
Consensus appears to be it was dropped hard. Very likely there is keel damage and strong possibility of other structural damage.
I think a small section needs to be cut out and the interior surveyed before any decisions can be made about methods.

 

[bucketlist1]

I thought cutting out a couple sample cores would be a good idea , but was advised not to touch the cracks due to the possibility of that being used against me by dealership and Factory .

 

[sean9c]

You keep telling people how to find the like to the video. Why not save everyone the trouble and just include it?

Let the factory fix it, if they will. They know the construction and I'm sure will do an adequate repair. Or find a good boatyard to do it, it's not rocket science.
My guess is the same as yours. The boat was dropped on something. They'll likely have to cut back until they find undamaged material and then build it back. It's not going to be just cut the outer skin off, replace the core and 'glass it back up.
I'd also think that you'll want a marine surveyor involved. If there is an insurance company involved I'm sure they will.
Boats name is Lemon Aid, I figured it'd be yellow.

 

[SoWhat]

I thought cutting out a couple sample cores would be a good idea , but was advised not to touch the cracks due to the possibility of that being used against me by dealership and Factory .

If there are pending insurance claims or you have started litigation then you should not touch anything without attorney's advice. If so, why would you be asking for repair suggestions?

 

[sean9c]

So the boat was bought in June without a survey or even a visual inspection?

 

[bucketlist1]

In the article on my website , I talk about how the pre survey got pushed off , the visual and sea trial was done in the water ( they put the boat in the water the day before , hadn't filled up with water yet . Very rushed deal because of my trade .

If you have time , read the whole story , www.rangertugtruth.com

 

[sean9c]

I read the site then went and read the thread you started last month. https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/hull-warranty-53627.html
Lots of good advise there, I'm not sure what you think should be added now. I can't see that Ranger has any liability. Doubtful that the brokerage will step up unless forced by a court. I don't know about CA but here a civil case like that could take years. So only a couple of options left, your insurance company or your wallet.
If it was me I'd try not to piss off Ranger Tug too much. This is going to be a big repair it might be made easier if you could get RT to splash you the piece of bottom panel that you'll be replacing. Scarfing that in would be a whole lot easier than trying to rebuild those strakes, and likely the centerline.
Needless to say, for the future value of the boat all the repair should be coordinated and documented be a licensed marine surveyor. Hopefully one who knows that putty is not spelled puddy.

 

[Solly]

This reads so much like the Ranger Tug that sank at the dock. Last year ??

Good luck, but if you don't know exactly who caused the damage and when.....
I don't see Ranger Tug having anything in the repair. It was fine when it left there. They might 'help' fix it but it's going to cost you.

Same with everybody down the line or until the last move b-4 the damage was discovered by you. Just hard to believe with the loading and moving somebody didn't see those cracks.

 

[Tolly Roger]

Interesting for sure.

Here is a line from the OP and owners web page that I find interesting.

" The original owner, in preparation for the new Ranger Tug had a new, top-of-the-line marine railroad system installed. The original owner did not put many hours on the Ranger, out for a 2-3 hour ride, then back on the marine railroad and into the boathouse. "

I wonder if the boat was damaged there and not noticed (or not disclosed) to the selling dealer.

I do love a good mystery.

In this case, just get the boat fixed properly and enjoy it for as long as you can.

 

[bucketlist1]

The problem with just fixing it ... is until the cracks are accessed from the inside , no one knows what the extent of the damage is . The 3 tanks are above the cracks . The floor /interior is sealed , one piece set in the hull , then the top cabin caps it off . You have to take the hole boat apart or cut the center of the floor out and fiberglass it back in after .

Not a cheap repair job . Also if you resell the boat later , you have to disclose that repair . I think I would be hurt badly on price . The thing I do know for 100 % , is the dealership sold a boat they knew had a water leak problem ( I have eye witnesses on shipping day ) and they told me ( after they shipped it anyway ) that is was just " a minor problem " and they would pay for repairs at my home port . Funny .... they changed their mind ..... all this in detail is on my website . thanks .

 

[psneeld]

I dont think all repairs are accessed from both sides.

I dont believe you "have" to disclose repairs.

Repairs done by reputable firms or manufacturers dont necessarily hurt sales prices as long as repair specs are available and considered normal by industry standards.

 

[SoWhat]

The problem with just fixing it ... is until the cracks are accessed from the inside , no one knows what the extent of the damage is .

No, you can cut holes in the side and determine extent of damage as previously mentioned. Unless it is subject to pending insurance claim or litigation.

Not a cheap repair job . Also if you resell the boat later , you have to disclose that repair .

In real estate you must disclose known defects but I am not aware of any legal mandate requiring you to disclose repairs on a boat.

I think I would be hurt badly on price .

You are already hurt badly on price. Your lawyer will want 20K just to file a civil suit. And the odds of prevailing in a he said/she said scenario are slim. Quotes from repair experts should give you a ballpark idea of cost.

-30-

 

[Comodave]

I don’t think you have to disclose on boats but it would be the right thing to do, but then you won’t be able to sell it...

 

[Tolly Roger]

Actually.......by posting this all over the internet AND creating your own web site you have gone out of your way to disclose the damage.

Unfortunately, it was a mistake not to have a full survey done before you closed on the deal. You cant change that fact.

Like I said before I'd spend your energy, time and money getting it properly repaired and go enjoy the boat.

 

[sean9c]

The problem with just fixing it ... is until the cracks are accessed from the inside , no one knows what the extent of the damage is . The 3 tanks are above the cracks . The floor /interior is sealed , one piece set in the hull , then the top cabin caps it off . You have to take the hole boat apart or cut the center of the floor out and fiberglass it back in after .

Not a cheap repair job . Also if you resell the boat later , you have to disclose that repair . I think I would be hurt badly on price . The thing I do know for 100 % , is the dealership sold a boat they knew had a water leak problem ( I have eye witnesses on shipping day ) and they told me ( after they shipped it anyway ) that is was just " a minor problem " and they would pay for repairs at my home port . Funny .... they changed their mind ..... all this in detail is on my website . thanks .

The bottom was deflected quite a bit to cause that long a crack, the effected area is likely much larger than what's visible from the outside. How large, you likely won't know until you start excavating. From what little I can guess from your site, yes, you'll have to cut out the interior that is in the way. It's not going to be a cut off the outer skin, replace the core and 'glass it back up. The inner skin is likely fractured also, it needs to be replaced.
Sure you can argue that the brokerage has responsibility and they likely are but if they don't agree to repair the boat your only option is court. I'm guessing there is a reason why you haven't mentioned an insurance company.
I would think that to insure the boat in the future you would have to show that the repair was done correctly which is one of the reasons that I suggested that the repair be monitored and approved by a licensed marine surveyor.

 

[sean9c]

I'm curious, the OP doesn't say much, if anything, about having insurance. I've never been able to insure a boat without providing the insurance company with a copy of the survey. The OP mentioned that he didn't have the boat surveyed. Were you able to get insurance without providing a survey or is there no insurance?

 

[psneeld]

I'm curious, the OP doesn't say much, if anything, about having insurance. I've never been able to insure a boat without providing the insurance company with a copy of the survey. The OP mentioned that he didn't have the boat surveyed. Were you able to get insurance without providing a survey or is there no insurance?

Yes, on an almost new boat, you may not have to provide a survey.

 

[SoWhat]

Yes, on an almost new boat, you may not have to provide a survey.

He did mention insurance on his website. But...

"A. CONCEALMENT, MISREPRESENTATION
OR FRAUD
The coverage provided by this policy depends on the
statements you made in your application. If you or any
insured conceals or misrepresents any material fact or
44201 (01-09) Page 4 of 14
circumstance, whether before or after a loss, this policy is VOID and you will no longer be protected by it."​

It is unlikely they will pay a claim if they think damage was concealed.
And the owner admits viewing the boat at transport but "I did not crawl under the boat on the wet ramp to check for issues as I was too focused on the air conditioning problem" The damage was very obvious. He didn't even look at the side? I think that comment is fatal to his insurance claim.

A lawyer was also mentioned. I don't see that going anywhere but it would cost 50K+ to get an answer. There are no surveys and no witnesses regarding when the damage happened other than a vague reference to a leaking AC or simply rainwater in the V berth.
(Yes, we can all speculate but a court relies upon expert witnesses or tangible evidence and it is totally lacking)

I don't think we will ever know the cause of the damage.

 

[psneeld]

He did mention insurance on his website. But...

"A. CONCEALMENT, MISREPRESENTATION
OR FRAUD
The coverage provided by this policy depends on the
statements you made in your application. If you or any
insured conceals or misrepresents any material fact or
44201 (01-09) Page 4 of 14
circumstance, whether before or after a loss, this policy is VOID and you will no longer be protected by it."​

It is unlikely they will pay a claim if they think damage was concealed.
And the owner admits viewing the boat at transport but "I did not crawl under the boat on the wet ramp to check for issues as I was too focused on the air conditioning problem" The damage was very obvious. He didn't even look at the side? I think that comment is fatal to his insurance claim.

A lawyer was also mentioned. I don't see that going anywhere but it would cost 50K+ to get an answer. There are no surveys and no witnesses regarding when the damage happened other than a vague reference to a leaking AC or simply rainwater in the V berth.
(Yes, we can all speculate but a court relies upon expert witnesses or tangible evidence and it is totally lacking)

I don't think we will ever know the cause of the damage.

I was just addressing that it is possible to get insurance without a survey at purchase.

 

[mvweebles]

I have to observe that a good chunk of Steve Ds business is inspecting new boats prior to delivery. I'm sure his fee can be steep, but I know of several instances where he would have paid for himself many times over had the buyer/owner used him.

Funny how so many stories like these include the line "OEM promises to fix any problems after delivery."

Good luck. Sad to hear your new-to-you boat isn't wildly exciting.

Peter