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Old 01-02-2018, 08:44 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by timb View Post
I have sanded all I care to on the mast and boom they are still rather white .will this improve when I put the coating on?

I also have the old dried out fly bridge steps here also is this approach going to make the super slick to stand on.

thanks
Tim

No and Yes.

No the white will not go away. After looking at the photo of the grid I think what you are referring to as white is actually the normal greying of teak that has been left to age naturally. Works sometime but with dirty air it often just looks dirty. Or were they actually painted white??

Now on to my point. If you want the grey gone then use a "Teak Cleaner" and follow the instructions. It is an acid and needs to done with some care. Then use the neutralizer and wash and wash. Let dry for a day or two. Teak does not absorb water the way a lot of woods do but any gaps in the joints will hold some and if not gone will cause trouble.

THe colour of the teak will come back in the grate holes. Some sanding will be needed by wrapping a piece of paper around a tongue depressor or similar stick using a relatively coarse paper, suggest 120 grit. On the flat,very visible surfaces I use 220 grit. Don't go nuts though. The finish will slowly fill in the remaining roughness where the cleaner and the greying has removed some of the softer wood.




Varnish on steps is a recipe for a slip and a fall. Use a grit or walnut shells or something to provide a grip. Generally steps should not be varnished at all.
You could also install a self adhesive grit covered tape , available at most marine stores. But what ever is done ensure there is some thing for a firm grip or someone is going to pay a heavy price. Smooth varnish is slippery, wet smooth varnish is deadly.

I am not a fan of the epoxy for this application. I did use it and it changed the wood colour enough I was not happy. Scraped it off but not deep enough as I did not want to take off that much wood. I learned to think it is just another teak colour variation. I will admit most people have no idea, they think is's great.
But I know.

Lots of people do use it and successfully so choose carefully. But I will add that the buildup of varnish must be done and kept up to protect the epoxy or you will be scraping at least some of it. I would venture at least 8 coats and then 2 or three each year. Sun and weather will degrade at least one or two varnish layers.

I have also seen a couple of failures, bubbling, likely due to the wood not being COMPLETELY DRY. It was mahogany and mahogany will absorb some water the way teak will not. But still it was a failure and a heck of a lot of work to rectify. It made me leery so I don't use epoxy, just many coats of good spar varnish.


Which ever way you go a thorough wipe down with some thing like acetone or similar must be done. Find out from the epoxy and varnish mfgr. what they recommend.
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Old 01-02-2018, 08:54 PM   #22
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be careful belt sanders are nasty tools, very effective ans sometimes too much. I would advise to practice before going on.

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Old 01-02-2018, 09:13 PM   #23
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I got my small belt sander and belts from Amazon. It is electric not air driven. I think the grit is 80.
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Old 01-02-2018, 09:14 PM   #24
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Wood belongs on the interior.
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Old 01-02-2018, 09:33 PM   #25
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For my knowledge what is the benefit of varnish over epoxy vs 7 coats (or whatever the number) of varnish? What does epoxy bringing?

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Old 01-02-2018, 10:16 PM   #26
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Th epoxy is said to provide a more stable surface for the varnish both hardening and sealing the wood to a higher degree than just the varnish.

I going to toss this back to an older contributor, Marin. He used the epoxy and then a urethane base varnish over top. He swore the urethane over was better than the spar varnish. His findings were that the urethane lasted two years so he and his wife could work a rotating schedule that enabled him to do less each year yet keep a good finish.

Look up his old posts as he stopped posting 2 or maybe 3 years ago. He posted several time about the epoxy/varnish/ urethane. Read some of them.
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Old 01-02-2018, 10:29 PM   #27
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The belt sander Commodave is referring to is much different from the typical 3 or 4" wide belt sanders.
They are specialty tools often use in fine metalworking, body work and so on. Available in both electric and air . I have one air powered. Good tools for the application but correct , care must be used. I think I would work with a finer grit first untill I got a feel for the machine in a particular application. It could gouge. But a nice tool.
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Old 01-02-2018, 10:35 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timb View Post
comodave ,
I have a 1/2 belt sander it takes 1/2 x12 belts it's like new .I just dug it out and tried it .it breaks the belt (at the seam) every time I run it .so I ether have too much air pressure of the belts are so old the splices are going bad. i'm guessing it has been laying around for 6 years. where did you buy your belts from ? what grit ?and do you remember the air pressure you used .

thanks everyone I'm really confused now but I have time to think and sand because I can't keep my garage warm enough to do any coatings.
Iíve got a bunch of old 2Ē belts. They always break at the seam as soon as I turn on the machine. Iíve researched reglueing them and tried a bunch of different ways. None work as well as a fresh belt.

I think this is where I ordered new ones from.
https://www.empireabrasives.com/sanding-belts/
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Old 01-02-2018, 11:11 PM   #29
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I have not used the 1/2Ē belt sander a lot. I bought it specifically to sand the slots on the swim platform on a pervious boat. I did the entire swim platform with one belt. I used it recently to modify a plastic template for my new portholes that the manufacturer made incorrectly 2 times. I have not broken any belts with the belt sander so far. I do install the belts in the correct run direction. It is a unique tool for some odd ball jobs, but it was cheap. Also, If you ask my wife, I have never met a tool that I didnít want...
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Old 01-07-2018, 12:42 PM   #30
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I know that my sanding belts will not last long stored in my garage. Florida heat, humidity, kills the glue in 18 months or so. Lost a bunch of better quality belts before I learned my lesson.
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Old 01-08-2018, 09:19 PM   #31
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Sander belts.
Some belts can be run in both directions. Belts will usually have arrows painted on the back side pointing one way or two for bidirectional.
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Old 01-11-2018, 05:55 PM   #32
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ok I have new 220 sander belts(it works now and I can defiantly ruin wood with it) and I have cleaned everything except the mast .
I also have started considering painting the mast boom and later the window frames after watching some YouTube videos by winty and others. I don't think I will be able to keep up with all the varnish.(I work a lot)
so has anyone used west system with the 207 hardener then a good long lasting paint over the teak.(maybe awgrip) .
I may try Lepke's way on the front floor sections. if it turns out ok then the Samson post and pulpit .
I may have to put seadeck step pads on the steps . they need some kind of finish as they look rough.

thanks for the help everyone.
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Old 01-11-2018, 07:54 PM   #33
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If you even think you will ever want the teak back then put two or three coats of varnish on. Then paint.
If you paint directly you will almost never get the paint out of the grain.

I'm faced with a similar project this coming year. I varnished my salon side windows last season but ran out of time. I have the paint and this season I will paint over the varnish. I put in just about 200 hrs last season and have decided that is too much, thus the paint to ease the work load somewhat.
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Old 01-11-2018, 10:15 PM   #34
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What C lectric says makes sense to me but if you use varnish as the base coat, donít put Awl Grip or similar 2 part polyurethanes over it. They will lift it and make a mess. I donít know what would happen if you put an epoxy primer over the varnish.

I donít like two part polys on wood anyway. They are not very flexible and tend to crack at each joint of the wood. I recommend a one part poly like Interlux Briteside.

Using the West 105/207 might stabilize the wood enough that you could use a 2 part poly without getting cracks but I donít know anyone who has done that..

If you decide to brush a 2 part poly, I recommend Interlux Perfection. Itís easier to brush or roll than Awl Grip. If you spray, use Awl Grip.
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Old 01-11-2018, 10:15 PM   #35
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Surprise, surprise, I've done the paint-over-epoxy, too. Gives a dandy waterproof 'primer' for paint. Again, you really have to 'encapsulate' the wood to get the desired result.

I misspoke in post 18, the shower door, sill and frame was coated out in West epoxy. I put layer of light 'glass cloth on the sill to make the cedar more resistant to foot traffic. I used Brightside Polyurethane directly on the epoxy. (pics too lousy to share.)

I used 'glass and epoxy to repair the painted wood 'pushpit' on our Morgan 27 before I painted it with the Brightside Polyurethane. (That repair was done in about 1998 and I'll bet it hasn't been repainted in this pic taken by her current owner this summer.)

I also made a 'gib' door in 2006, coated out in West epoxy and painted with exterior grade latex house paint. The 'gib' door is the hinged panel under the window which opens normally; you have to duck under. I also made the interior storm door, but it's not in the weather so is simply painted.
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Old 01-12-2018, 12:43 PM   #36
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I came across this today about cetol, handy reading.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...7-gaPDc98hO08U
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Old 01-12-2018, 01:14 PM   #37
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You're not going to glue all those joints, on that grate, together with epoxy or anything else, well enough that you keep moisture out. So water is getting under your finish. Just clean and oil it with some sort of teak oil and be done with it.
On that mast if you varnish it, no matter what you put under the varnish, if it's out in the weather you're going to have to re-varnish it every couple of years. Fine if that's OK with you. If you just want it to still look like wood use Cetol or one of those sorts of wood finishes , it'll last longer.
I'd paint the mast, a good marine enamel would last 4-5 years.
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Old 01-13-2018, 07:32 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou_tribal View Post
For my knowledge what is the benefit of varnish over epoxy vs 7 coats (or whatever the number) of varnish? What does epoxy bringing?

L
Varnish can fail from the top down due to dings or UV deterioration, or from the bottom up from wood movement or moisture. The epoxy simply seals the wood very effectively and gives a slightly harder subsurface than without. Dings in the varnish can admit moisture, but epoxy also helps to prevent that since the water can't soak into the wood.

Epoxy doesn't reduce the number of coats of varnish you need, it just makes what you put on last longer. Epoxy will turn lighter with exposure to the sun so it needs to be protected just like the wood. But if you do have to remove the finish, removing a thinned coat of epoxy is no harder than removing varnish, if you use a heat gun and scraper.

I stopped applying varnish only to wood about 30 years ago for those reasons, with a few exceptions, and I regret the exceptions.
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Old 02-08-2018, 11:11 AM   #39
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I had to take a little break to install a monitoring system(Siren MTC) so I could sleep at night. and replace a toilet ,and I thank Parks and Peggy for there help. that was an expensive month.

ok I have cleaned , brightened, sanded and oiled the grates and steps . it's ok

now I have decided to epoxy and paint the mast and boom do I need to thin the west system and do I need to prime the epoxy before the Brightsides paint?

also I'm thinking of using fast hardener so I don't have to keep my garage above 65 degrees. is this ok?

thanks for the advise so far.
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Old 02-08-2018, 11:21 AM   #40
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Greetings,
I don't know if this has been mentioned yet but IF one uses West System, the amine blush must be removed before re-coating. I have stopped using WS for this reason. MAS, evidently does not have this problem. https://masepoxies.com/
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