Dripless Shaft Camano 31

[Chrisaensing]

So this is for you Camano Troll folks...
The boat we are purchasing has a dripless shaft, that is dripping! Looks like it will need to have a new seal.
How do you access this as it is way back in the keel? Must be some sort of overhead access?

 

[Comodave]

May also be time to replace the bellows or hose?

 

[ctjstr]

I had to replace mine last year on my Camano. I used a Tides Marine dripless, and added a spare seal kit. I prefer them to the PSS ones.

but to answer your question. No, there is no other access. Its a real booger to get to. I finally had to get a hand (from a small guy) to help. FWIW, I found the best way to access stuff down there (there is also that rear bilge pump just in front of that seal) is to lay blankets over the rear of the engine and transmission. I flopped around until I could reach down. I needed help sliding the new on on the shaft log.

Good Luck!

 

[Chrisaensing]

I was debating doing it myself or hiring someone. When you disconnected the shaft you only needed to slide it back far enough to get the new seal on?
Also, there shouldn't be any need to realign anything?

 

[Jeff F]

A drip may be resolved by cleaning between the mating surfaces with a rag. Easy to do if you can reach in there to compress the spring to separate the two rings. I wouldn't view a drip as cause to replace the entire unit.

PSS recommends replacing the rubber bellows every six year as preventative maintenance, so it may be time for that anyway. They sell rubber replacement kits.

 

[Chrisaensing]

A drip may be resolved by cleaning between the mating surfaces with a rag. Easy to do if you can reach in there to compress the spring to separate the two rings. I wouldn't view a drip as cause to replace the entire unit.

PSS recommends replacing the rubber bellows every six year as preventative maintenance, so it may be time for that anyway. They sell rubber replacement kits.

Good to know. It is so Freakin' tight in there & will be a pain in the a##, If I replace the bellows, maybe just do the whole thing?

 

[Portage_Bay]

I'm passing along a tip from a trusted mechanic. I have not used it so can't recommend for or against. Just something I filed away in case I need it.

Clean with a rag as suggested above. Then put toothpaste between the rotor and stator and go cruising. Tooth paste is a very fine abrasive that is water soluble. The concept it is polishes the surfaces and is washed away. I would go so far as to pry the rotor and stator apart once the leaking stops and flush well just to make sure the toothpaste is really gone.

Like I said, I haven't tried it.....

 

[Chrisaensing]

I'm passing along a tip from a trusted mechanic. I have not used it so can't recommend for or against. Just something I filed away in case I need it.

Clean with a rag as suggested above. Then put toothpaste between the rotor and stator and go cruising. Tooth paste is a very fine abrasive that is water soluble. The concept it is polishes the surfaces and is washed away. I would go so far as to pry the rotor and stator apart once the leaking stops and flush well just to make sure the toothpaste is really gone.

Like I said, I haven't tried it.....

Interesting...

 

[firehoser75]

Does look like a PITA to access. PYI does recommend (and my insurance company insisted (after buying survey)) replacing the bellows every 6 years if I remember correctly (info available on their site). You can now buy an "upgraded" bellows that has a 10 year replacement. That is the way I went, and mine is way more accessible than yours. PYI states that under normal use, the SS rotor and carbon stator do not need replacement. Mine were good after 15 years. I added their "retaining collar", but you probably could just use a good quality hose clamp to ensure nothing moves over time. I would hire a skinny mechanic with long arms who has experience changing these shaft seals. While you are doing this, you might want to consider the cutlass bearing(s) since the shaft has to be disconnected from the tranny anyway??
If your bellows (meaning seal) does not require it's routine maintenance, and you are just looking to stop a leak, you could first try just using a cloth to "clean between" the mating surfaces as per the user manual. Failing that, the toothpaste sounds like it might work. Call PYI if you want to try but it worries you.

 

[Chrisaensing]

firehoser75
Definitely seems hard to access. I am trying to decide the best course of action. I need to take the boat from where it is (Boca Grande) to my dock in Crystal River - About a 3 day trip. It is probably fine but it means hauling the boat once I get it home

 

[Chrisaensing]

I had to replace mine last year on my Camano. I used a Tides Marine dripless, and added a spare seal kit. I prefer them to the PSS ones.

but to answer your question. No, there is no other access. Its a real booger to get to. I finally had to get a hand (from a small guy) to help. FWIW, I found the best way to access stuff down there (there is also that rear bilge pump just in front of that seal) is to lay blankets over the rear of the engine and transmission. I flopped around until I could reach down. I needed help sliding the new on on the shaft log.

Good Luck!

Do you think there is any way to cut an access in the Lazarette/cockpit area?

 

[ctjstr]

Do you think there is any way to cut an access in the Lazarette/cockpit area?

don't think so. Either way, its a ways down there. as to the replacement itself, I disconnected the flange and then had to go to the back of the boat and tap on the collar of the prop just to get it started back. That allowed me to push/pry back the shaft enough to get the collar off of the shaft and push it back far enough to slide the old seal off. Other than the cramped area, its not a hard job.

as to running with it leaking, just a word of warning. On mine, when i left Tacoma, it was dry. By the time I got to Port Townsend, a few hours away, it was leaking enough to cause the bilge pump to run about 50% of the time. I parked at the dock until Monday to get hauled, and in that time, burned out the bilge pump, allowing the water to flow over into the next compartment, the one under the engine where the next bilge pump picked it up. Bit of a white knuckle weekend waiting to get picked up. The culprit on mine was a failed water inlet to the seal. It got so hot that it actually melted the seal around the shaft. So if you take off with a drip, I'd first want to know that it was still being cooled with water, and then watch it to make sure it didn't get serious during the drip.

I'm going to try and attach a photo of the failed seal.

toni

 

[Chrisaensing]

Thanks for the input. I've decided to replace the entire unit to be safe, it's a 20 year old boat

 

[Chrisaensing]

The boat is a couple hours away so I can't measure it - What is the Tube size & what is the shaft size?

 

[twistedtree]

I expect this is just the sort of failure than inspired installation of a flow alarm as discussed in another thread.

 

[twistedtree]

Just curious, what make/model bilge pump burned out?

 

[Chrisaensing]

Can Camano Owner tell me...Is the transmission to shaft connection a split one or do you have a good photo to share?

 

[ctjstr]

The boat is a couple hours away so I can't measure it - What is the Tube size & what is the shaft size?

I've got the receipt down on the boat and will try and look when I'm down there. Measuring that shaft log (the tube) was damn near impossible with the old seal still in place.

 

[ctjstr]

Can Camano Owner tell me...Is the transmission to shaft connection a split one or do you have a good photo to share?

Mine was a split. Pull the flange bolts off. Then I think there was an interference bolt through the collar and shaft. Then I just just used a screwdriver as a wedge to help spread the split. Not sure if all the same, but mine was pretty easy other than the location.

I did check the engine alignment when I was done and fortunately mine was within .003 so I called it good.

 

[Dave_E]

After you do replace it (good choice), remember these are a maintenance item. As the bellows gets weak, or the metal puck moves on the shaft, you can loose the recommended dimension, which relates to the pressure of the carbon disk to the stainless puck. I strongly recommend a secondary locker on the prop shaft, i.e. a simple band clamp will do. I've replaced these on my sailboat and our trawler. Zero problems.

 

[Chrisaensing]

That's what I am finding out.

 

[Chrisaensing]

Question (off topic) what size is your RIB?

 

[ctjstr]

After you do replace it (good choice), remember these are a maintenance item. As the bellows gets weak, or the metal puck moves on the shaft, you can loose the recommended dimension, which relates to the pressure of the carbon disk to the stainless puck. I strongly recommend a secondary locker on the prop shaft, i.e. a simple band clamp will do. I've replaced these on my sailboat and our trawler. Zero problems.

not an issue with the tides marine seals. One reason I didn't use the PSS ones.

 

[KlepsAK]

Dripless shaft

Not intended to be helpful on reaching the unit but just a comment. This is one reason I prefer the old style packing. I’ve seen catastrophic failures with these things which can leave one in a precarious situation. Sometimes newer technology is not always the best. Again just my thoughts for wherever worth and that’s not much.

 

[Chrisaensing]

Not intended to be helpful on reaching the unit but just a comment. This is one reason I prefer the old style packing. I’ve seen catastrophic failures with these things which can leave one in a precarious situation. Sometimes newer technology is not always the best. Again just my thoughts for wherever worth and that’s not much.

Actually I agree, in fact I am considering installing the "packing gland" method when I replace the dripless...which I will replace it, just not sure which type I am going to use.

 

[ctjstr]

Actually I agree, in fact I am considering installing the "packing gland" method when I replace the dripless...which I will replace it, just not sure which type I am going to use.

for me, not even a close call. Once you squash yourself down there, the thought of having to get a wrench in there to adjust the old style packing will make you shiver. i couldn't even get a set of calipers in there to measure the shaft log. I certainly was not happy when I had the failure, but the thought of servicing a traditional unit would just not be a good option. The Tides Marine unit I used has a spare seal attached to the shaft, so its pretty easy to replace that seal (relatively speaking) I suppose that's my insurance. Plus, I have two water inlets to the unit so in case one gets obstructed, I'm still getting water for lubrication.

 

[Chrisaensing]

for me, not even a close call. Once you squash yourself down there, the thought of having to get a wrench in there to adjust the old style packing will make you shiver. i couldn't even get a set of calipers in there to measure the shaft log. I certainly was not happy when I had the failure, but the thought of servicing a traditional unit would just not be a good option. The Tides Marine unit I used has a spare seal attached to the shaft, so its pretty easy to replace that seal (relatively speaking) I suppose that's my insurance. Plus, I have two water inlets to the unit so in case one gets obstructed, I'm still getting water for lubrication.

Good advice - QUESTION: Do you have a Camano 31 & if so, What size is the Shaft Log? & which unit did you order?

 

[firehoser75]

I am not an expert on traditional packing, but, having one that has to leak, does require even occasional adjustments in a location as hard to get to as yours appears would not be my idea of a "good time"
A properly installed (get a professional who has a track record with the brand you pick especially due to your access issue) dripless seal should not require much "hands on" attention (until time for the next servicing). If using the PYI seal, install an "extra" retainer (they sell one or just use a good quality hose clamp), and also monitor the seal for temperature and any signs of unusual leaking.

However, if you feel more comfortable with a packing gland, go for it.

 

[mvweebles]

for me, not even a close call. Once you squash yourself down there, the thought of having to get a wrench in there to adjust the old style packing will make you shiver. i couldn't even get a set of calipers in there to measure the shaft log. I certainly was not happy when I had the failure, but the thought of servicing a traditional unit would just not be a good option. The Tides Marine unit I used has a spare seal attached to the shaft, so its pretty easy to replace that seal (relatively speaking) I suppose that's my insurance. Plus, I have two water inlets to the unit so in case one gets obstructed, I'm still getting water for lubrication.

I agree. If you have good access to your packing gland, traditional style with modern packing makes perfect sense though I do not begrudge those who decide on PSS or any other quality dripless. It's a judgment call to balance relatively frequent maintenance of a traditional gland that will last almost indefinitely vs a dripless that lasts approx 10 years and has very little intervening maintenance. It's a personal decision based on your skills and comfort with the technologies.

However, some boats have packing glands where access is difficult to near impossible. The Camano 31 is apparently one. I have seen V-Drive boats that bury the packing gland. This will seriously dissuade maintenance of a traditional gland. If it were my boat, I would definitely go with a dripless system. Not sure which one, but no doubt in my mind would not be a traditional gland. I understand the risk of catastrophic failure. There is risk of not maintaining a traditional gland. I'd be more comfortable with dripless.