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12-23-2016, 06:24 PM
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#21
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Guru
City: Quebec
Vessel Name: Bleuvet
Vessel Model: Custom Built
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 4,375
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About drilling a metal, younstart small and increase the size of your bit all the way till your desired sized. A good way for drilling metal plates are staged bits don't exactly know the name in English but these are conical bits that increase hole diameter with depth.
Fot extracting a stuck or broken bolt, you first drill a hole in your bolt that you stuck your LH bits in it with one or two hammer stoke then use ur drill.
I never ckecked for any documentation about it just learned that from elders that knew what they were doing. As an example when my father was at school, at that time they were learning things ranging from electricity to forging and working with metals. This was a time when working experience was more valuable than reading books.
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12-23-2016, 06:27 PM
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#22
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Guru
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,036
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Titanium nitride coated drills work well, even the cheap ones from Harbor Freight.
Start small.
Stainless needs lubrication, they make lubes specifically for stainless.
__________________
Jay Leonard
Ex boats: 1983 40 Albin trunk cabin, 1978 Mainship 34 Model 1
New Port Richey, Fl
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12-23-2016, 06:58 PM
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#23
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Guru
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,143
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Saw an interesting post...guy used a tiny diamond tipped hole saw.....
May have to see just how small they come....can't imagine they come small enough for most jobs...but on big bolts, I wonder how much faster or precise they might be.
Well so far...I have heard that sharp bits are the ticket, which means lots of them and because inexpensive ones might work just as well, especially sharp ones, may just buy a drawer full of reasonably priced ones.
Some of the larger highly recommended ones were $200 to $700 a bit...that IS out of my range.
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12-23-2016, 07:17 PM
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#24
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Guru
City: Quebec
Vessel Name: Bleuvet
Vessel Model: Custom Built
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 4,375
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Question, as my English is far from perfect, when you talk about LH bits is it this kind of things:
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12-23-2016, 07:26 PM
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#25
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TF Site Team
City: Paris,TN
Vessel Name: Slo-Poke
Vessel Model: Jorgensen custom 44
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld
Is carbide harder than colbalt?
Is there a good sharpener that will do different cutting angles and all metal bits?
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I think carbide is harder but so hard that it's brittle .If carbide gets in a bind it will snap . I ran a drill press for a few years and then advanced to a machinist for about 20 years . I had to learn how to sharpen my own bits by hand . You can do it with a little practice . The way I learned was a kept a new drill bit in my box and looked at it while grinding the dull one . Now I can take a bit that's been busted in half and put new grind in just a few minutes .It just takes some trial and error.
__________________
Marty
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12-23-2016, 07:35 PM
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#26
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Enigma
City: Slicker?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,563
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Greetings,
Mr. L_t. Post#24. No. They are known as Easy-Outs or screw extractors. A LH drill bit looks exactly like a regular HSS drill bit but the flutes spiral in the opposite direction. Meaning you have to run your drill in reverse to use them. The advantage is that while drilling, you are, in theory, unscrewing your broken stud. Sometimes just the reverse drilling is enough "grab" to actually remove the stud.
The Easy-Outs are used in a hole you have already drilled and turned to the left, hopefully grabbing the broken stud/bolt and unscrewing it.
Mr. ps. Diamond is a very different animal again. The bit MUST be kept as cool as possible which usually means copious amounts or water or coolant. If the bit heats up at all you run the risk of burning the diamonds which are only carbon, after all. Diamond is best on hard materials like glass or ceramic. Even hardened steel may be too soft for diamond and the diamond may clog up too readily.
__________________
RTF
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12-23-2016, 07:51 PM
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#27
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Guru
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,143
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Good you tube.... http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A2KLq...QRQcRJMMsaUZQ-
Looks like all carbide bits win for ultimate hardness, along with locksmith bits....
But if just drilling out even grade 8 bolts, plain old Dewalt colbalt drills should do the trick along with any other colbalt brethern.
Once you break an easy out or drill bit in a hole...looks like a solid carbide might be your only chance of drilling in cleanly.
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12-23-2016, 07:54 PM
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#28
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Guru
City: Quebec
Vessel Name: Bleuvet
Vessel Model: Custom Built
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 4,375
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Mr RTF thank you very much for the clarification!
So what I was saying in my previous post is related to these easy-out, that is why I was saying that it is going in a predrilled hole Sorry for the confusion.
But about ur LH bits, how can it remove a broken bolt if drilling through? is it also conical so it will stuck at a point? If not it will just drill through no?
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12-23-2016, 08:00 PM
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#29
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Guru
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,143
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Sheer torque reversing the bolt...
Many posts from machinists are not favorable to easy outs....they are saying if a left handed drill doesn't do it, chances are it's not coming out with an easy out either.
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12-23-2016, 08:11 PM
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#30
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Guru
City: Philadelphia, PA
Vessel Name: Revel
Vessel Model: 1984 Fu Hwa 39
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,024
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Home Despot, or anybody's cobalt bits are pretty good. LH twist is dandy for backing screws. You can ruin any bit with too much force, dull, lack of lubrication - anything is far better than nothing, stainless steel is noted for 'work hardening' - that is too slow or too fast cutting makes the metal harder. Consumer grade carbide is usually not sharp since they're sold for masonry or concrete.
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12-23-2016, 09:02 PM
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#31
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Enigma
City: Slicker?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,563
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Greetings,
Mr. ps. I tend to agree with the view of the "machinists" as I've never had much, if any success with Easy-Outs. Haven't used them that much so I guess that's why I can't recall ever breaking one. Just the fear of such a breakage keeps me shy of them.
There are a bunch of different techniques to remove a broken stud/bolt but the usual awkward location in an ER usually limits what one is able to employ. Given the sometimes limited space to swing a hammer to center punch, limited visibility (NOT helped at all by failing eyesight) and small selection of the "best" tools makes a simple repair turn into an OMG! crapshoot. BIG difference between working on a well lit bench and hanging upside down while trying to prevent oneself from falling into the bilge while wielding a hammer/punch/drill AND holding a light in your teeth.
The BEST, by far, technique for extraction of broken/seized bits is heat via a torch but again, if you're working with a casting (block/pump housing) you are limited by the damage that excessive heat can do to above mentioned block/pump housing etc.
I feel for ya brother...
__________________
RTF
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12-23-2016, 09:40 PM
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#32
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Guru
City: Hotel, CA
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld
Sheer torque reversing the bolt...
Many posts from machinists are not favorable to easy outs....they are saying if a left handed drill doesn't do it, chances are it's not coming out with an easy out either.
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They are correct. Have never used an easy out for your application. Drill 50% of the center out and then switch to a left hand twist at 75% size. If that don't do it either retap or helicoil as needed. Each job is a bit different.
__________________
Craig
It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled - Mark Twain
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12-23-2016, 09:42 PM
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#33
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Veteran Member
City: New Bedford, MA.
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 55
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I mostly use "triumph" brand HSS drill bits, even on Stainless. If I have to drill something that I know has been hardened, I will use a solid carbide drill bit. When drilling Stainless Steel it is most important to use lower speed and HIGH pressure as high speed will work harden the Stainless. Another option to a broken bolt that is proud or flush, is to plug weld a nut onto the broken bolt, let cool and back out with a wrench.
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12-23-2016, 09:52 PM
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#34
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Guru
City: Quebec
Vessel Name: Bleuvet
Vessel Model: Custom Built
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 4,375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RT Firefly
Greetings,
Mr. ps. I tend to agree with the view of the "machinists" as I've never had much, if any success with Easy-Outs. Haven't used them that much so I guess that's why I can't recall ever breaking one. Just the fear of such a breakage keeps me shy of them.
There are a bunch of different techniques to remove a broken stud/bolt but the usual awkward location in an ER usually limits what one is able to employ. Given the sometimes limited space to swing a hammer to center punch, limited visibility (NOT helped at all by failing eyesight) and small selection of the "best" tools makes a simple repair turn into an OMG! crapshoot. BIG difference between working on a well lit bench and hanging upside down while trying to prevent oneself from falling into the bilge while wielding a hammer/punch/drill AND holding a light in your teeth.
The BEST, by far, technique for extraction of broken/seized bits is heat via a torch but again, if you're working with a casting (block/pump housing) you are limited by the damage that excessive heat can do to above mentioned block/pump housing etc.
I feel for ya brother...
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Mr RTF one day I knew a women who... No ok just forget about that this is not the right place
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12-23-2016, 10:11 PM
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#35
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Guru
City: Miami Florida
Vessel Name: Possum
Vessel Model: Ellis 28
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld
Parks...got any left handed sets too?
Maybe when I stop long enough say at Ft Pierce I may be interested.....or when passing through your area in early march.
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They make left hand bits but I don't stock them. Maybe I should. They also make an interesting screw extractor that I recently put in stock but haven't tried yet.
Catalog
Page 113
__________________
Parks Masterson
Retired from Hopkins-Carter Marine Supply
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12-23-2016, 10:14 PM
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#36
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Guru
City: Miami Florida
Vessel Name: Possum
Vessel Model: Ellis 28
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,307
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Rufus T, I like that one.
__________________
Parks Masterson
Retired from Hopkins-Carter Marine Supply
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12-23-2016, 10:23 PM
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#37
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Guru
City: Hotel, CA
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RT Firefly
Greetings,
Mr. ps. I tend to agree with the view of the "machinists" as I've never had much, if any success with Easy-Outs. Haven't used them that much so I guess that's why I can't recall ever breaking one. Just the fear of such a breakage keeps me shy of them.
There are a bunch of different techniques to remove a broken stud/bolt but the usual awkward location in an ER usually limits what one is able to employ. Given the sometimes limited space to swing a hammer to center punch, limited visibility (NOT helped at all by failing eyesight) and small selection of the "best" tools makes a simple repair turn into an OMG! crapshoot. BIG difference between working on a well lit bench and hanging upside down while trying to prevent oneself from falling into the bilge while wielding a hammer/punch/drill AND holding a light in your teeth.
The BEST, by far, technique for extraction of broken/seized bits is heat via a torch but again, if you're working with a casting (block/pump housing) you are limited by the damage that excessive heat can do to above mentioned block/pump housing etc.
I feel for ya brother...
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https://m.lowes.com/pd/BernzOmatic-T...6-25b4351585dc
A friend of mine has had good luck with this torch at under $30
__________________
Craig
It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled - Mark Twain
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12-23-2016, 10:46 PM
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#38
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TF Site Team
City: Brisbane
Vessel Name: Insequent
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander 50 Mk I
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,262
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Part of the good advice in the thread has been to keep your bits sharp. A few years ago I bought a Drill Doctor. They are really good, and use a diamond abrasive wheel so it will sharpen any type of bit.
https://www.drilldoctor.com/compare-...bit-sharpeners
__________________
Brian
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12-24-2016, 02:35 AM
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#39
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TF Site Team
City: Saltspring Island
Vessel Name: Retreat
Vessel Model: C&L 44
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,663
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gaston
Lubrication Lubrication Lubrication Lubrication
The right Lubrication when drilling SS or any other metal is critical for both cooling and friction reduction. Dont just use any oil sitting around the workshop and expect it to cool and Lubricate the drill bit .
As RT would say the correct Lubrication is good for both man and machine
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I added a stiffening base to my davits. I tried all different bits, but when I added a good quality lube, the hardness of the bit no longer made a lot of difference. With proper lube, the task went from impossible to cutting like through butter. This was through 1/4" SS plate.
__________________
Keith
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12-24-2016, 03:43 AM
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#40
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Guru
City: Kenai, Alaska
Vessel Name: Melanie Rose
Vessel Model: 1999 Willard PH
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,236
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Funny timing on this thread, having just broken off a 5/16" tap on a piece of 1/2" 316 stainless plate I was tapping for my down riggers. The u-tube videos I could find recommended tungsten bits, I tried cobalt and it wouldn't touch the core of the tap. The video had a guy drilling holes right through a HSS hardened drill bit all up and down the bit length.
I got mine out by having a welder TIG a stud onto the broken tap and then rocked it out with a pair of needle nosed vise grips. The welder cost me $20, a tungsten bit was estimated at $30 and not available locally. My other option was to punch it out and help coil it back down to 5/16" after re-tapping, not my first choice.
I lubed with LPS Tricut, which was recommended by my fabricator, neither HSS or cobalt moved any metal on the tap.
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