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Old 10-10-2017, 03:26 PM   #1
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Cummins v504 water filter

Hi All.

I have two 1969 Cummins V504M's on a 1971 Vanlent 41 and they each have a Bowman heat exchanger header tank.

The closed fresh water circuit appears to have what I imagine to be is a fleetguard water filter in an old can style arrangement. Do you know if there is much involved in putting in a new filter. I imagine you close off the mini stopcock and open it up. Is there any pitfalls I have to avoid.
I will post a pic when i figure out how




Also and most importantly do I replace / top up the contents with water or is it a mix of water and antifreeze.

And finally, what antifreeze is best to use and is there any type that should be avoided.

Kind Regards
Liam
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Old 10-11-2017, 12:18 AM   #2
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I have a V555M so yours and mine have the same requirements.

This what I do.

Your engine requires DCA chemical additive. That can be purchased from Cummins.

Every two years is the change interval using "Diesel rated low silicate antifreeze". I get mine from Cummins as they are close. Available from many vendors. Do not just go buy any green A.F. unless it is low silicate, diesel rated.
I mix mine 1 x 4L jug of distilled water, 1 x 4L jug of the above A.F. along with the 4/5 of the bottle of DCA60 which are 16oz, or about 12-13 oz per 8L of water/A.F. mix.
Do not just pour the whole DCA bottle in or the concentration will be too high. It is a major pain to reduce concentration. THe way I do it will put you roughly in the low centre of the concentration needed maybe needing a later small adjustment.

You also need the test strips kit to check that concentration is in fact correct. If a bit on the low side I simply add a bit of DCA concentrate or use a filter.

Filters are used to help keep the coolant clean and adjust DCA levels.
The ones I use are WF2051 which has 4 units DCA
AND a WF2077 which has NO DCA.
If the concentration is too high use the WF2077. It it is just a bit low the WF2051 can be used.20

SUpplies:
A.F. I use is Zerex ZX001FC which is low silicate diesel rated
WF2051 filter 4 DCA units Spin on
WF2077 filter NO DCA Spin on
CC2602A coolant test strip kit [4 strips]
DCA60-L 16 oz bottle, DCA 60
Distilled water.
Base on mine you will need approx 40L of the mix. Yours may be + or -.


Once filled TAKE THE BOAT OUT for a warm up run to heat and thoroughly mix the whole mess up. Running at the dock is a waste of time and may yield erroneous readings. Once cooled then take a sample and use the test strips.

THe test strip come with instructions for their use. Read it through a couple times. Not hard but it is time limited so be sure you understand the procedure.

The coolant needs to be maintained. It is important to the cylinder liners. It is not hard , just needs to be done and the engine will be little trouble from coolant.

Change the filters cold. The ones I use are spin ons, not canister. You should be able to get a spin on filter head from Cummins or elsewhere and change to spin ons. Far easier.

I do have shut off valves on both hoses so the system can be pressurized and not get a burst of coolant while working on the filter. There will be a tiny amount leak out so use some absorbent paper towels. The BLUE Scot paper shop towels are excellent. The white houshold ones, not so much.

Top up will be the mix so keep some extra. I carry about 15L already mixed in 1 gal plastic gas jugs, well labelled .

As for the DCA in the spare I don't worry as long as the formula outlined above is what you carry. It will be more than close enough. Unless you have leaks there won't be a need for a lot other than the initial top up after the initial run.

Testing should be done immediately after cooldown of the initial fill. Then about a month later to check for any differences. If all appears good then I do it twice yearly thereafter untill the next change.
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Old 10-11-2017, 07:42 AM   #3
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Great post C. Important for those who read it is to know that engine health and coolant monitoring/changes are related - for all diesels.
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Old 10-11-2017, 08:38 AM   #4
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Thank You

Hi Mr. C Lectric and many thanks for your time and expertise. would you believe I was directed to this forum by a chap called Nicola who mentioned your good self as a " Cummins Man to search for " .

So far I have managed an oil change ect. but I cannot locate a thermostat.


Also at present the coolant level in the header Tank is about 6 inches below cap level which seems a little low for me. Would there be a ball park figure for a general inspection. it's an old Bowman1906 type tank

as ever many thanks
Liam
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Old 10-11-2017, 08:40 AM   #5
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The photo attached is what I believe to be the water filter
Thanks
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Old 10-12-2017, 12:35 AM   #6
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V504 coolant filter

I'm just an owner, no expert. My engine is a 1976 so a few years later and the 555 so similar, but different.

My heat exchanger is different from yours. My coolant filter is also different from yours as it uses spin on filters.

I have included a photo below which shows my filter, lower left hand corner.
The shutoff valves are on the engine block rather than on the filter. I also used hydraulic hose for the lines.

I suggest you try to convert the filter to spin on type.

DO you have a manual and parts book? There is a manual posted here in the PDF files that shows some 504 info. It covers several engines, 504, 555, 903 and 855.

Actually there are two manuals. One someone posted after me. The one I posted was in 4 or 5 parts which included the V555 parts book. If you do not have these then you should try to find them but one of the manuals posted here will help. You will find the water filter head and bracket in there so should help.

I don't know if the mounting bracket can be used as is or if it would need some modification. If not easily fitted in the vee then I see no reason it could not be remote mounted on a bulkhead. Just use good hose as it will be hot.

I think you will find the thermostats , 2 per engine, next to the cylinder heads under a square 4 bolt cover at the front of the engine. There may be a small copper 1/4" OD tube running from it to the heat exchanger. If you too have them they will allow the air to purge out of the engine when the new A/F is installed. They work.

The thermostats; If the engines are not overheating I would not worry about them yet. If like mine they are large, heavily built pieces and are also expensive. Not like the usual car junque.

As for the coolant level in the tank that I would suggest is too low and may affect cooling. I would raise it to about 1.5" to 2" below the filler neck to allow for expansion. If expansion room is not left the engine will simply spit out some of the coolant. Years ago I fitted my engine with a coolant recovery bottle so there is no coolant loss and the exchanger can be totally filled. To do that though requires an actual recovery type cap, not just a standard cap. Cummins did not offer one so I went to a GOOD parts place with the old cap and went through the catalogue with a friendly parts guy. Actually now Cummins might have one that will fit.
I will try to remember to look up the cap part # I use as it may be of use to you or maybe not.


I will try to load a photo that will show a bit of the thermostat housing on mine.

I'm sure you have lots to do
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Old 10-12-2017, 12:38 AM   #7
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photo[s] ???

Hmm, no photo. WIll try again.


Thermostat housing in upper photo has blue hose coming out of it with a yellow handled ball valve shut off. The small air bleed metal tube can be seen just ahead of the blue hose attachment point as a 90o bend. Sort of centre left.

Second photo shows my coolant filter. Lower left hand side.
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Old 10-12-2017, 03:00 PM   #8
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Getting There

Hi Mr C Lectric

Thanks for all the pointers.

Im still finding my way around the Forum and will try to locate the link for the PDF Manuals.

Its interesting how the engines developed between 1969 and 1976

My engines were Marinised by Parsons

I will be back on the river Shannon on Monday and will try to locate the Thermostats. I wont go near them but just want to know their location in the event of an overheat condition.

That was all great info , for working on the cooling system and I really appreciate your time. Thanks

Liam
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Old 10-13-2017, 08:28 PM   #9
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They are quite different except for the fact they are both V8 and of the same series. It would be worth trying E bay for a manual. Even a truck engine manual would help you for the basic engine item such as thermostats.

For The marinizing items you would need to locate the marine engine manual from the marinizer. My V555 was done by Cummins in England.
The gear cooler and the heat exchanger were done by Serck.
Yours you say were from Bowman who were good too.
Serk also makes parts for the 6bt , the aftercooler on the turbo versions.

You still have the noise reducer box intakes. I dumped mine in favour of the air filters, K & N, along with my plates. Those filters collect a lot of dirt although it took me several years before I tackled them. My engine was noisier though after the filters were installed. Not hugely but noticeably.

The blowby hose is lead to the air filters. At some point in the future I will enlarge the hoses but so far the engine shows minimal to almost non existant blowby. Keep an eye on yours. Your blowby or crankcase vent seems to just dump into the engine room at the back. I lead mine to the noise reducers even before I installed the filters to avoid the fumes and mess. If need be if/when my engine starts to develop more serious blowby I will then add a catch bottle midway so any oil will not go to the intake and then only the odour will be pulled into the intakes.

I cannot upload the manual; I tried. T.F. cannot handle the info. It details the valve and injector adjustment procedure even for the 504 so may be usefull. It covers several engines so be carefull and take your time to ensure you understand.
I will say CHECK only the first time through. Especially the crossheads. Check and if they are OK leave them alone. Just undoing them will only complicate matters and introduce a chance of trouble. Same for the valves.

The injectors, one cylinder at a time , are set first to the proper depth and THEN the valves are done; not the other way.

I use the dial indicator. Not hard, just slow as I don't really develop any skill. It needs to be done very seldom but does need to be done as the engines performance can be affected quite a bit if these things are not set properly.

Sorry, I spend a lot of time on BoatDiesel Forum and I just realized that is where the manuals are , not on Trawler Forum. I suggest you try there although you will have to become a member for $25 or maybe $50 to download the manuals. You should be able to go have a look though as a guest but I suspect you will have to join to actually download.

You can contact me through T.F. by clicking on my name and sending me a note with your email address. I should then be able to send you the files.
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Old 10-15-2017, 11:14 AM   #10
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Blowby Hose

Hi Mr. C Lectric
Thanks for the advice on the blowby hose going back into the noise reducer box intakes. That explains the smoke !
The Port is ok but the starboard is a little smoky. I have not dismantled the noise reducer box intakes but I donít think there is any air filter in there to replace.

It has been suggested to run a cleaner fluid through the common rail injector system I'm not sure if its suitable for this engine .

The Blowby hose comes out of the top of the engine via a cylindrical housing and a lot of people are intrigued as to its name if you could identify the component that would be hugely appreciated.

I wont get down to the Shannon tomorrow as the tail end of storm Ophelia is going to hit but when I do I will drain the water cooling system replace the filter and replenish as you have described. I donít think I can air lock the system which would be my big concern

As ever many thanks for your time and experience
Liam
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Old 10-15-2017, 01:01 PM   #11
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You do NOT have a common rail fuel system. It is a PT system which is a variable low pressure of a few hundred PSI from the pump to the injectors. Then the injectors, when injecting, raise the actual injection pressure hugely.

A Common rail system pressurizes the entire system to something over 20,000PSI.

Those noise reducers are NOT filters. They are meant to reduce noise and keep large bugs and small birds or other debris out. They do indeed reduce valve noise clatter and intake air suction noise. Without them there will be more noise. I chose to add real air filters which is the big round filter in my photos. One filter per intake. The noise did increase but not enough for me to not do it again if a similar situation was presented.

That hose can be secured right next to the noise reducers so the fumes are sucked into the engines. I divided mine, a tee fitting, so each intake takes part of the fumes so not just one cylinder bank gets it all.

I installed that fitting on the valve cover so long ago I cannot remember. I've had my boat for over 30 yrs now. It was still listed in some of the Cummins online pages. Actually, if I remember correctly more the Fleetguard pages.

For draining the coolant I replaced all the drain cocks with locking handle ball valves and a hose adapter so a hose can be attached and lead to a bucket. The first time was a mess as the drain cocks allowed no hoses to be attached. Take a look at yours. Hopefully a previous owner changed yours to a better setup.

If you wish to use an additive be carefull as some of them are snake oil and will actually do harm. I use one called Startron diesel. It has had very good reports although all of them do of course. If you feed the engines with clean fuel and use the fuel in a reasonable time there should not be a problem. Biggest problem is getting a load of dirty or water contaminated fuel or not using the fuel in a reasonable time.

Make sure the fuel fillers have O rings on the caps as much water can enter a tank that way. ALl my fillers have I rings which get changed every few years. I also lightly grease the fill cap threads and O rings to keep the caps from seizing and also help the O ring effect a good seal.
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Old 10-15-2017, 02:58 PM   #12
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Cooling Gen

Thanks for the info on the PT system.
That is good advice on the filler cap.Every time I wash the deck I wonder how resistant it is. Thanks again for the Gen Mr. C
Liam
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Old 10-15-2017, 03:25 PM   #13
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email

Hi Mr. C lectric
I tried sending a private message but the system thinks it is spam
if its not too much trouble and you had a moment would you mind sending the service manual info.

my email is
liamsvanlent@yahoo.ie


Thanks

Liam
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Old 10-16-2017, 11:03 PM   #14
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Done. The files are between 7 & 10 MB each.
5 separate E mails for the manual and one for the parts book so 6 total.

Let me know if they don't make it.

The parts book MAY help with the general idea and when talking to a parts dealer.
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