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Old 06-13-2022, 04:33 AM   #21
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A multi grade oil is more for extreme temperature operations. Especially for cold weather starts. In the warm climates straight weight oil is still good. My aircooled generator still specs 30wt oil its less then 20 years old.
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Old 06-13-2022, 05:52 AM   #22
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I'd rather not get in the middle of an oil debate but on my Bacchus website - Useful Links section is an article by Cox Eng re Yacht Oils that is better than most you find re trucks / vehicles that have emissions control systems.

https://dkloeber.wixsite.com/bacchus/links
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Old 06-13-2022, 10:45 AM   #23
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A good friend of mine works for one of the notable marine engine manufacturers. He owns mid-80's Roughwater 37 with a Perkins 6.354 natural, located in the Southern California area. I traditionally ran single-weight but asked what oil he runs - his response: "Delo 400 15-40 (API rated CK-4 or CJ-4); or equivilent. Shell Rotella T 15-40 is equivilent."

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Old 06-13-2022, 11:35 AM   #24
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The only problem, if it even is a problem with house branded products, oil, groceries, or anything else is you never know who actually made it. Stores don't "make" anything, they just have it contract packaged for them. They usually won't tell you who made it and even then it might change from year to year. We all have our favorites, be it Rotella oil or Jiff peanut butter and you never know what actual brand a house labeled product is. Even some of the well known brands are actually contract packaged by some other company you never heard of. If a house branded oil has the proper certifications on the label, it is just as good as the name brands. You just don't know what name brand it is.
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Old 06-13-2022, 11:54 AM   #25
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I'd rather not get in the middle of an oil debate but on my Bacchus website - Useful Links section is an article by Cox Eng re Yacht Oils that is better than most you find re trucks / vehicles that have emissions control systems.

https://dkloeber.wixsite.com/bacchus/links
A great article really - it's a shame most will not read data.
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Old 06-22-2022, 09:34 AM   #26
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Oils and science

This subject came up around February, 2021, and numerous times before that. Winter provides fewer alternative uses of our time, so I went deep then and before on lubricant research, a minor obcession - family member headed up a major oil companies specialty chemicals division, which included things like oil for manned spacecraft gyroscopes, open cockpit world class racing cars, additives and base stock for motor oils, etc., plus my own lifetime obcession in keeping cars a long time (22 years on my Silverado, 260,000 miles, long but not really unusual), reading Tribology Research from time to time, etc. (Yes, I do have a life - wife, church, golf, yard, consulting, expert witness work, volunteering, etc, although my reading Tribology Research might cause one to think otherwise.....)

Here's my bottom line: Do your own research. Read the back of the oil jugs. Go to Shell and Exxon diesel oil web sites, and others if you like. Read trade industry sources on trucking engine lubrication research, search for marine diesel lubrication research, etc. I suspect that TF friends who are still in the Straight 30 or 40 Dino oil world will have to read the research to be convinced that tribology science and application has progressed in the last 60 years. In the late 1960s working summers in a gas station we still had customers asking for straight 30 long after multi-viscosity and API ratings (SAE - Society of Automotive Engineers earlier) came out. Some things never change.

Of particular interest and easy to find are Exxon's and Shell's product information on their web sites. What is notable is how they compare performance of full synthetic multigrade oils to blended dino/synthetic and dino multigrade oils for shearing at high temperatures, deposits, engine cleanliness, acidity, and much more. I reviewed Shell's product info this morning - amazing how much better performance is attained by Shell's T6 over their blended T5, and how much better the T5 is than dino T4. No opinion here - just a referral to the research based product claims by the manufacturers of two of the largest diesel oil companies in the world. Trust them over any opinion I might offer.

Here is the site for blended T5, for instance: https://rotella.shell.com/en_us/prod...nd-oil/t5.html

Look at that, be sure to hit the "for more information" tab at the bottom for specific comparisons, and do the same for T6.

Lastly, look up your engine manual recommendation for oil grade. Track how that grade rolls up into more recent grades - what older grades are covered by current grades. American Petrolem Institute has that information on their site, and most oil manufacturers do, too. (I have a great Volvo engine and they sell Volvo brand oil, and their grades can be traced from decades ago up their current grade, I think it's VDS4.5, and it covers the grade recommended for my 2005 TAMD41P-A.)

So, the information is out their from tribology research groups, the oil manufacturers, the American Petrolem Institute, trucking fleet managers, and all sorts of other groups and sources if you take the time to look it up.
I wouldn't admit to this in a bar or with my golf buddies, but it's actually fun.......

My conclusion for my diesel: Shell or Exxon full synthetic for heavy duty diesel engines, 15-40 viscosity (from the engine manual), most advanced grade that rolls down through the original grade in the engine manual.

Happy Researching!
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Old 06-22-2022, 01:43 PM   #27
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For the first 15 years the previous owner ran Sears 30wgt motor oil.

I switched her to Shell 30wgt diesel motor oil in 1993.
Seems to be fine.
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Old 06-22-2022, 05:06 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by catalinajack View Post
No, not straight weight oil. Any 15W-40 is a superior lubricant for the same price.
No multi-vis oil needed for inboard boat engines Ö.
UNLESS Ö. itís for a fireboat or other such craft that requires heavy engine loads right after startup.
Stationary engines operated by engineers use single vis when multi-vis is not required. Any engine that gets warmup time dosnít require multi-vis.
Exception; Engines w turbos should run synthetic multi-vis lube oil.
Iím agreeing w another poster and couldnít find the post.
Opinion

I see ďTow LouĒ agrees w me. Thanks
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Old 06-22-2022, 06:35 PM   #29
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Last oil change I used the 2 gallons of Costco 15-40 that were on the boat and 6 gallons of Rotella that I bought. No problems.
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Old 06-22-2022, 07:02 PM   #30
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We choose our presidents with a popularity contest.
Why not oil?
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Old 06-22-2022, 08:14 PM   #31
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Just following the engine manual. States 15-40 good for anything.
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Old 06-22-2022, 10:44 PM   #32
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KnotYet said this about my post;

ďAnd the same old misconstruing. No one has said that marine diesels need
multiviscosity oil. The point is that there is no need to avoid them either.Ē

Very good point. Why avoid MV oil?
The biggest reason I think is to have more oil in the oil. We use oil for safe and low resistance of all the moving parts in an engine that would otherwise be in a state of metal to metal contact. The amount of friction in the engine is reduced to low levels by the oil .. directly. The additives improve the oils performance by reducing foaming, reducing the buildup of sludge ect ect .. indrectly. But the oil reduces friction or degree of slipperyness. Thatís what I want in an oil. And as far as I know only oil will reduce friction, lower heat buildup and metal wear.

I donít know how one can have the typical heavy support of oil and lower friction together. Lowering the viscosity reduces the support making it much more likely for metals to come together. You could call viscosity in MV oil synthetic viscosity when warm or hot. It dosnít come from the oil it comes from the additive. 10w30 oil is 10w oil. It has different properties viscosity wise at higher temps only because it has VIís in it. Does the 10w30 oil have the same support keeping the metal apart? Thatís questionable.

But itís really a question of what is lost at high temps.
A straight 30w oil has a given power to keep the metals apart. Does a 10w oil w VIís in it have the same ability as 30w oil?

And would 10w oil with VIís in it have the same level of slipryness as 30w oil?
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Old 06-23-2022, 12:41 AM   #33
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One way to authoritatively resolve this is to run 2 identical boats, identical engines at identical hours, in identical condition, at identical speeds under identical use conditions for say 1000 hours. One using 30w, one using 15-40. And then inspect engine condition.
If we already had 15-40w, would anyone really advocate switching to 30w? I`ve used 15-40 in various brands for 15 years in various engines and not experienced any harrowing oil caused(or other) engine disaster. So far.
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Old 06-23-2022, 02:05 AM   #34
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In my experience tradespeople including mechanics are often very superstitious. One bad experience with anything, and it becomes a mantra they keep repeating. Typical of this example over multigrade oils is the issue of the ethanol fuel blends - especially here in Aussie.

If they've ever seen just one car where E10, eg, has resulted in clogged fuel filters and therefore erratic running, (not surprisingly, as the alcohol has loosened a lot of crud that has coated the components of the fuel system), that prejudice lasts forever.

Replace filters a couple of times - issue would have gone away, as long as the vehicle had the right seals etc from new - most now do, and have for decades. My 1990 GT4 loved E10. Running it from new or near new - again no issue. Sure, not ideal in situations where it sits for long periods between fills. Just need to allow for that.

Same deal with oils, which is even less of an issue as the filters are changed regularly and the engines love the new multigrades - they just cost a bit more is all. But the prejudices hang around for a long time.
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Old 06-23-2022, 05:45 AM   #35
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Any engine that gets warmup time dosnít require multi-vis.


Exception; Engines w turbos should run synthetic multi-vis lube oil.



Thanks
Eric
I basically agree but have to ask about the 2 points above...
1- Isn't an important part of decision to use multi vis the temp range experienced and the problem (delay of lube circulation) at starting? And higher wear rate at starting vs running.
2- if true why wouldn't mfg of engines w turbos specify syn multi- vis oil?
(The ones I've seen say it's OK to use but not necessarily needed or recommended)
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Old 06-23-2022, 11:03 AM   #36
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Don,
1. Lubrication at startup is kind of a snake oil subject. Mostly opinions. And Iíve offered my own. Most opinions are kind of a scare tactic implying or outright stating ďmost wear in an engine is incurred at startupĒ.

My take;
Two stroke and four stroke engines are both lubricated while running. At shutdown the oil remains .. at least some of it after some time passes. At least for weeks. Millions of engines run for many many years starting up on residual oil left at shutdown. The higher the viscosity the better. Less oil will drain off and there will be more ďoil supportĒ from the thickness of the oil present at shutdown. Win win Ö higher viscosity = less wear Ö. keeping the metal parts apart. If this wasínt true all engines would wear out after running only a few times.

Don theyíve been making diesel engines w turbos for years before synthetic oil. I worked in a 1400hp stationary diesel electric powerhouse. The year .. 1960. The straight eight engine was a 16x20 Enterprise w a 5 ton flywheel. This was long before synthetic oil and this engine was fed RPM Delo 30w. We rerefined our used oil as all things were flown in in 50 gal. barrels on DC3 and smaller aircraft.
But re your question-comment if synthetic or MV oils were required the manufacturer would specify that.
And I might add that the Delo 30w diesel engine lube oil is better than it was in 1960. The whole additive package is probably almost all different.
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Old 06-23-2022, 12:03 PM   #37
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The above post and many of Nomad Willy's others imply that there will be
an actual difference to a marine engine's health or longevity were it to use
single grade oil versus the appropriate multigrade version. Proof of that is lacking.
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Old 06-23-2022, 12:52 PM   #38
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Well professor will you please enlighten us?

Did you read my take on having a maximum amount of oil probably aids lubrication? Anything else in the oil does probably does not.
I’m not saying that your engine will last longer. It probably will but I have no stats to prove it. Nor have I read any copy that disproves it either. Many scientists and engineers don’t know some of this stuff. Always learning tho and exchanging ideas on a forum is one way to learn. Mostly opinions but we can stack up the opinions with what we do actually know to be fact .. probably/usually it will result in learning.
But we have internet forums to express our thought, observations and opinions. I submit mine .. you submit yours.
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Old 06-23-2022, 02:21 PM   #39
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Well professor will you please enlighten us?

Did you read my take on having a maximum amount of oil probably aids lubrication? Anything else in the oil does probably does not.
I’m not saying that your engine will last longer. It probably will but I have no stats to prove it. Nor have I read any copy that disproves it either. Many scientists and engineers don’t know some of this stuff. Always learning tho and exchanging ideas on a forum is one way to learn. Mostly opinions but we can stack up the opinions with what we do actually know to be fact .. probably/usually it will result in learning.
But we have internet forums to express out thought, observations and opinions. I submit mine .. you submit yours.
I've posted previously but I can sum it up.
I think that a NA diesel in a boat will not be impacted by the choice
between single and multigrade oil that meets the engine manufacturers' specification.

For engines with turbochargers, oil choice will have a greater impact due
to the higher temperatures and stresses and synthetic oils may enhance longevity.
Blended synthetic or full synthetic oils may only be available as
multigrade, I'm not sure, but are likely easier to find as multigrade.

A number of years ago I had my own 'white whale' of oil choice.
I used to own and ride '70s era Ducati motorcycles whose engines
used roller and ball bearings - no 'plain' bearings.
They required straight 40 weight non-detergent oil.
Try finding that at The Pep Boys!
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Old 06-23-2022, 05:53 PM   #40
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KnotYet,
I agree that NA engines will be happy w single or multivis lube oil.
And I agree turbo engines should have what the manufacturer recommends as well as all other engines. And if they don’t comment on dino/synthetic then either one.

If I still had my boat I’d run multi-vis or synthetic if I had a need. But the notion that mono grade oil is old school and won’t work in this modern world is nonsense. In cars that need to start and work in freezing weather I usually used synthetic multi-vis. Like w5/40 in my 05 VW Golf. W5/30 dino in my 06 Avalon. W10/30 dino in my 95 Camry and 87 Nissan .. high milage oil. The 06 Avalon gets it’s oil changed at the dealer and I thought they were putting synthetic in it .. but come to find out it’s Mobile 1 dino oil. I thought because it was Mobile 1 it was synthetic. Been tricked by Mobile Oil.

But in inboard boats where the engine is out of freezing weather I use mono 30w.
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