Can this be fixed?

[PMF1984]

This came off my engine this last winter. Just got it from the yard.

I noticed that the break appears to have happened some time in the past, based on the rust.

Can this be welded to be functional again or is this a junkyard item?

I have the skill to do a crappy job of brazing it, but I know that won’t cut it.

Any advise welcome

John

 

[rgano]

Why would you even want to try to reuse something with that much internal rust. For that matter, I would wonder about the internal condition of the engine it came off of - was it submerged?

 

[PMF1984]

Not submergered. This starter worked fine.

I replaced the plate between the engine and transmission, and replaced an engine mount.

The starter had to come off. Was not easy job as two of the bolts broke off. I don’t honk that they used never-seize on the starter bolts back in 1986. Luckily I had a spare starter.

I have a great starter repair guy in New Bedford who can look this over, but first the casting at the mounting bolt hole has to be fixed.

 

[PMF1984]

Oh, and the engine, a Westerbeke W100, has over 10,000 hours on it. Has great results from oil analysis and does not burn any oil.

 

[rgano]

Then I guess my next step would be to talk it over with a profession welder. The key here is to make a template or take along a gasket for the thing so that the hole is perfectly aligned.

 

[ofer]

my vote is to junk it

 

[denverd0n]

I'm only a hobby welder, not a professional, but I know that welding cast iron is difficult and somewhat "iffy." Wouldn't hurt to talk to an experience professional who has done cast iron welding in the past. My guess, though, is that you're going to have to junk it.

 

[PMF1984]

Rgano, thanks for the tip about the gasket

Ofer, it’s 700 US to buy a new one

 

[rgano]

Hope it works out for you.

 

[PMF1984]

Actually, I have a 1949 Farmall Cub that had a crack in the block that got welded. It’s just that the welder retired.

 

[ofer]

Rgano, thanks for the tip about the gasket

Ofer, it’s 700 US to buy a new one

assuming the whole starter is $700. it looks like the starter motor is bolted to the casting. maybe you can find a used starter for much less and bolt the motor to it.

 

[Russell Clifton]

Take it to the electrical repair shop. If they have been in business forever they may have a good used one or at least know where it can be welded. Not everyone can weld cast iron.

 

[ofer]

or just JB weld it. probably good for an emergency start.

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

Actually, I have a 1949 Farmall Cub that had a crack in the block that got welded. It’s just that the welder retired.

United welding in Lynn,Ma was in the biz of welding industrial blocks...

 

[SoWhat]

Ofer, it’s 700 US to buy a new one

Any good weld shop can repair it but if the estimate approaches 4 or 500 hundred the economics become questionable.

 

[KnotYet]

Not submergered. This starter worked fine.

I replaced the plate between the engine and transmission, and replaced an engine mount.

The starter had to come off. Was not easy job as two of the bolts broke off. I don’t honk that they used never-seize on the starter bolts back in 1986. Luckily I had a spare starter.

I have a great starter repair guy in New Bedford who can look this over, but first the casting at the mounting bolt hole has to be fixed.

This can be repaired by a competent welder. I would have your starter repairman fully
disassemble it first, naturally. He'll want to replace the bearings anyway, I'm sure.
Once it's back together it will make a good spare that you may never need to use.

 

[diver dave]

Find a new(ish) nose cone. Yours will need help in the way of sandblasting to allow a good no gap, fit to the block. A bad seat, will cause even a new cone to break, since you are loading/bending the two ears to be firm to the block. Cast iron is brittle.

 

[Lepke]

I can weld it, but it takes cast iron welding experience. It has to be heated to about 1000° before welding, and slowly cooled after. A jig has to be made to hold the ear in position and the the crack ground out. A welding shop will probably charge more than a new starter. ebay should have a starter for about $100 if you know the base engine.

 

[High Wire]

Westerbekes use Mitsubishi engines for their generators. Sorry I no longer have the breakdown for 100 hp engines.

 

[PMF1984]

The engine is a Mazda ZB block which was used in their T4100 trucks, sold extensively in SE Asia and Australia.

It’s a ten tooth, CCW starter. Westerbeke has them no longer available and some folks have as replacement a smaller starter that also fits the 70hp Westerbeke (4 cyl.)

The real replacement is the API 15034.

Still working on getting a price to rehab.

Some good suggestions from you folks, thanks.

John

 

[PMF1984]

Final update.

I went to Advanced Engine Rebuilding, which can fix anything - last time I was in there they were working on a Simplex engine, for an opinion on the starter. I was told the salt exposure causes a problem with welding the cast iron and as the whole thing had to come apart because of the heat required to weld CI, as Lepke mentioned earlier, I should take it to a starter rebuild shop. Other things probably needed attention in addition to the nose.

I ended up at L. H. Boulanger & Sons in New Bedford. They looked at it and said, “Yeah we can fix that.”

Got a call yesterday afternoon, ready to pick up, $189 + tax.

John

 

[localboy]

$200 vs $700. That is a win!

 

[Lepke]

Starters for Mazda ZB engine are about $400 on ebay.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2840656159...2MDOFYwtxqtSPQ%3D%3D|ampid:PL_CLK|clp:2334524

 

[PMF1984]

Lepke, thanks for looking. I checked those out and also checked out sites in Australia where I have gotten other block add-ons.

They don’t look like what I had. Maybe it was just the nose piece.

Anyway, Boulanger’s said it was a hard piece to get and that it was a Delco starter.

Rebuilt starter is sitting in my front seat.

 

[PMF1984]

Lepke, also maybe looked different because my block is the 1979-1985 design

 

[Circumnavigator]

Actually, the OP's comment about brazing is where I would go -- as noted above, cast iron is very difficult to weld, but it's easy to braze. Given that cast iron has little tensile strength anyway, a brazed joint ought to be fine. The mounting bolts need to be strong enough to take the torque of the starter while it's running, but the other bolt will do that. If I were being really careful, I might use Grade 8 bolts.


Jim

 

[AdkChris]

Having worked years ago in transmission and starter - alternator rebuilding shops I think any decent rebuilder should have or be able to get good used hard parts. Hard parts being the parts that are normally reused unless they are found to be bad when inspected and tested.

Back when I was doing starters the bushings were the only thing that was always replaced. The rest of the starter was inspected, tested and most likely good as new.