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Old 10-19-2020, 06:11 AM   #21
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Do not reapply gelcoat to the repair. I find it with blisters on every hull I have seen that has gelcoat sprayed around bow thruster holes, underwater exhaust, trim tab pockets etc. that are installed post lay-up or just touched up.

Best way to figure out what to do is to have a small section investigated to examine the nature and extent of the damage then proceed with an appropriate repair process.
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Old 10-19-2020, 06:15 AM   #22
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Post #2 ...I posted a 6oz cloth layer went on to replace the matt/gel over any putty for holding plus as an extra thick barrier coat before the Interprotect that helped smooth the surface.

A giant PIA trying to do it myself, but done.
Gotcha. I missed that.

The workmen I watched do it on a sailboat were talented and fast. If I were to do it, would end up a total mess of crinkle zones. Maybe in today's world of YouTube video instruction I could do a decent job at fiberglas, but my prior efforts did not end well. Reminiscent of a 3 year old making Play-Doh figurine.

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Old 10-19-2020, 06:18 AM   #23
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Found it. Thanks! Printed it out so I can read it with a hi-lighter.
One source, not the final.

I probable learned more from the underground fiberglass pipe and tank industry more so than the boating industry.

Small area test saying is almost mandatory to identify hydrolysis, there are other symptoms that may....but ultimately small area testing doesn't really show the full extent. Once some is found/suspected...more extensive destructive testing is required. A decent step is pull widespread thru hulls and try and check for hydrolysis in the laminates exposed there.
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Old 10-19-2020, 06:24 AM   #24
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I wonder if this might be covered by your insurance as a latent defect. When this happens in older boats it's because they were built before this issue was well understood. But for it to exist in a 10 year old boat is a pretty big "oops" by the manufacturer.
Good point. I asked my insurance company (Pantaenius) a few years ago when this started and they responded that "Osmosis" was not covered. I left it at that at the time, because I thought blisters = Osmosis. End of story.

I have just now sent them a follow-up mail asking them if it would be covered if this could be proven to be a manufacturing defect.
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Old 10-19-2020, 06:32 AM   #25
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My take? Why the blisters appeared after 6-7 years and have been getting progressively worse needs some answers from Greenline. FRP vessels built in the past decade should be using products and techniques as perfected in the previous 50 years of using FRP to avoid blisters.
.

I very much suspect this is why, after the first few years of production, Greenlines going forward were built using vinylester instead of polyester. Unfortunately, my hull is from early in their first year of production.
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Old 10-19-2020, 06:42 AM   #26
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If the fluid coming from the blisters is clear. It is highly unlikely that hydrolysis is involved. I've seen hundred of cases of hydrolysis and it has always looked like malt vinegar with a very acidic taste.
PS. My son is working in Malmo
Thank you for this, boatpoker! This experience is very useful in helping me better understand what might be going on.

Interesting that your son is working here! There is a rapidly growing international presence in Malmö.
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Old 10-19-2020, 07:26 AM   #27
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Clearly Greenline knows they had a problem and they're just happy the boat made it through their five year warranty before blistering. Why do I say this? Most builders would be indicating to you that it probably wasn't serious and they'd recommend you have a yard look at it. When the builder immediately suggests a complete gelcoat peel and a different resin than what they originally used, it indicates to me they've had widespread issues and they know the cause. I would try to get them to tell me what they know and cause and what they've changed since.

Clearly they know you're fighting a losing battle approaching it the way you have and with the recurring problems.

I would take their advice and talk to the people they use as well as others and then proceed with someone you have confidence in.

A boat the vintage of yours should not be having this problem to the extent you have and, in my opinion, this is a significant manufacturing defect. However, it's also a correctible one as I believe has likely been done many times.
My hull is from their first year of production (2010). At some point after this, they changed from polyester to vinylester....and went from a 3yr warranty to a 5 yr warranty.

I tend to agree with you that the swiftness and completeness of their response to my question suggests that they've dealt with this before.

Complicating this is the fact that Greenline today, while made in the same factory and with some of the original molds, is actually a different company. The original company that built my boat, SeaWay, went bankrupt around 2015-ish and the remaining assets were bought by another company, SVP Yachts. Most of the original employees, are no longer there, as I understand it.

The SVP folks have been surprisingly helpful with various support questions and component needs I've had since they took over in 2015 and I think they're a good company. They have learned a lot and the product line has evolved in an impressive way. If I were in the market for a new hybrid today, would I consider Greenline again? Absolutely.

As frustrating as it is, I don't see that they have any legal obligation for my current situation and I don't see much point in going to the expense of pressing it and risk damaging the otherwise good relationship I currently have with them.

One thing that appeals to me about arranging the work to be done through the manufacturer is that they fully understand the hull shape, hull contstruction and light-weight design. Any gelcoat peeling would have to be performed in a dead-accurate manner and if any delamination were to be found in some of the areas where the bottom is thinner, then it would be comforting to me to have the factory calling the shots for the sub-contractors doing the actual work. I'm learning in this thread that a 2-year warranty for blister work sounds a little scant. But, I would also be looking for that warranty to cover any possible damage to structural integrity from the work, which I think, if it existed, would be likely to present itself within two years. I would want to see the details of the warranty to be sure!
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Old 10-19-2020, 07:27 AM   #28
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I have dealt with blisters on all two 40 foot trawlers that I have owned. I chose not to deal with blister by blister although it might have worked. I had the yard grind off my bottom paint and the gelcoat. After some drying with heat he went back with epoxy. My hulls were sufficiently thick he did not add any glass. Then barrier coat and new bottom paint. No more blisters after that.
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Old 10-19-2020, 07:38 AM   #29
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If you use a non-epoxy paint over an epoxy barrier coat, the first coat of that bottom paint must be applied before the epoxy transitions to the final stages of cure. Thumb print tack is the typical time to apply bottom paint. This ensures a chemical bond between the two. So timing of each step is important. An example is use of an ablative bottom paint over Interlux 2000. I used red bottom paint for the first coat, and followed with black over that red guide layer. When red begins to show, it's time for a new coat of black. We did an epoxy barrier coat (Interlux 2000) plus bottom paint 15 years ago and haven't seen a blister since.

By the way, epoxy is not UV tolerant, so any areas above the water line must be protected.

I like the two-color idea, Rufus and will certainly use that strategy I end up going the epoxy route. Thanks for the clever tip!


I have ~6 inches of bottom color that is above the waterline. No blisters in this area, thus far. I wonder if this should be treated in the same manner as the bottom? (i.e. peel and epoxy, for example). If yes, do you know if anti-fouling paint could be expected to protect the epoxy from UV damage?
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Old 10-19-2020, 07:40 AM   #30
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For the 2 color route, I'd personally use a hard paint for the first layer, then a compatible ablative over that. That way you don't have to worry about wearing through the different color layer at any point.

I'd do the full treatment to any area that has bottom paint, even if it's above the normal loaded waterline. The bottom paint should provide plenty of UV protection.
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Old 10-19-2020, 07:42 AM   #31
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Question on repair: I don't see recommendations to epoxy laminate a thin skin of fiberglass mat over the peeled hull. I've seen this being done and would think it would be far superior to paint-on Interlux 2000 alone. Would it be preferable to add a layer of epoxy mat?
Peter

You're right, Peter. They did not mention adding any layers of mat. I will ask them further about this. Obviously, they would have to do it if any delamination were found. If adding mat helps increase the liklihood of long-term success, then it's something I would want to do, despite the incremental cost.
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Old 10-19-2020, 07:52 AM   #32
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...do you know if anti-fouling paint could be expected to protect the epoxy from UV damage?
I would check with the experts on the Interlux technical hot line.
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Old 10-19-2020, 08:20 AM   #33
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For the 2 color route, I'd personally use a hard paint for the first layer, then a compatible ablative over that.
Thanks for adding this....exactly what I did. If I remember correctly, Interlux had/has a table discussing compatibility, although I called their tech line to
double check. As for the paint over epoxy cure times, my spouse and I got the ablative over the hard paint layer applied within cure windows.
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Old 10-19-2020, 08:31 AM   #34
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Your vessel has a composite rather than solid FRP hull as best I recall. Best to insure that whoever does the remediation can demonstrate requisite type experience. A decade or so ago Keith (RIP) posted on TF the steps for his composite hull KK 42 to cure a similar issue. Along with hands on comments and PMs from PSN, Commodave and others you've got some good TF advice.

I compliment you on the steadfast approach you're taking. During these COVID times getting work done at faraway "locked down" yards is a challenge for several of us.
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Old 10-19-2020, 09:26 AM   #35
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ScottC
Your vessel has a composite rather than solid FRP hull as best I recall. Best to insure that whoever does the remediation can demonstrate requisite type experience. A decade or so ago Keith (RIP) posted on TF the steps for his composite hull KK 42 to cure a similar issue. Along with hands on comments and PMs from PSN, Commodave and others you've got some good TF advice.

I compliment you on the steadfast approach you're taking. During these COVID times getting work done at faraway "locked down" yards is a challenge for several of us.

Thank you, sunchaser.

The dealer documentation I have refers to: "polyester resin laminate using injection technology". Not sure if this is the same as the "composite" you're referring to or different??
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Old 10-19-2020, 04:00 PM   #36
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You're right, Peter. They did not mention adding any layers of mat. I will ask them further about this. Obviously, they would have to do it if any delamination were found. If adding mat helps increase the liklihood of long-term success, then it's something I would want to do, despite the incremental cost.
PSNEELD mentions it in one of his earlier posts. In the hands of skilled workmen, fiberglass work isn't too difficult. I would think the prep would be done already, would just be a few days to apply the skin and some minor fairing.

Good luck -

Peter
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Old 10-19-2020, 04:14 PM   #37
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Fiberglass work isn’t rocket science but it is hard work if you are working upside down on the bottom. People that do it DIY can get really good results, experts may get a slightly better job mostly because they know more tricks of the trade than DIYers. If I were younger and didn’t have back and shoulder problems I would have no hesitation on doing it. But not anymore. I did do a blister job back about 20 years ago. It was tough work, especially in Arizona where it was 110, but not technically difficult. I would follow, to the letter, the directions and advice from the paint manufacturer. We did a whole bottom blister job and painted the entire boat with 2 part polyurethane paint using the roll and tip method. It came out beautifully. We followed the directions as closely as possible.
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Old 10-19-2020, 04:58 PM   #38
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I had a wonder. Greenlines are pretty light boats. I'm guessing the idea is that with a hybrid drive it takes less energy to push a light boat than a heavy boat. So because of this the construction may be more sophisticated than the usual. I'm guessing that the hull is cored and also possibly the laminates on either side of the core are thin. This might effect what you end up doing after peeling the hull. If much laminate is removed you'll need to put it back. Also again because the boat is designed to be efficient bottom fairness and finish might be an issue. Smooth, fair hulls are easier to push than rough unfair hulls. So you could potentially be looking at adding back laminate and then refairing the hull. A wise choice would be to get a knowledgeable marine surveyor involved.
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Old 10-23-2020, 01:21 PM   #39
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Been there

I peeled bottom, filled and faired. Forget gel coat. Not needed. Next sanded. Then 8 coats Interlux barrier coat alternating colors white and grey to ensure coverage. Then bottom paint. To avoid a hard edge where the epoxy meets the gelcoat above the waterline, mask tape the gelcoat. Then with each subsequent epoxy coat move the masking tape down an inch. Mine has been good for 12 years and counting. 8 coats may be overkill but you don't want to do it twice.
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Old 10-23-2020, 02:32 PM   #40
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I peeled bottom, filled and faired. Forget gel coat. Not needed. Next sanded. Then 8 coats Interlux barrier coat alternating colors white and grey to ensure coverage. Then bottom paint. To avoid a hard edge where the epoxy meets the gelcoat above the waterline, mask tape the gelcoat. Then with each subsequent epoxy coat move the masking tape down an inch. Mine has been good for 12 years and counting. 8 coats may be overkill but you don't want to do it twice.
+1, I agree. We had a previous boat soda blasted down to gel coat. Fixed some minor blistering. Then put on 6 coats of Interlux 2000 Interprotect. If you are doing the barrier coat, some will say only 2 coats or so, but why not make sure and do it right. The small incremental cost isn’t much. Getting ready to paint is most of the work, adding some extra coats is easy.
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