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Old 03-24-2017, 12:55 PM   #41
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The Federal Government let California get away with this years ago so there's no going back.

By this, I mean legislating stricter regulations on products to the point where prices were raised for everyone or manufacturers were forced to manufacture modified products for sale in CA.

So, it's already being done and the Feds gave up control over it.

The thing that many people miss on the Washington State regulation on copper based bottom paints is, it only applies to us recreational boaters. Commercial operators and the military can still use copper paint so what pollution is being avoided?
I think that is a selective misinterpreting to fulfill a particular world view. Not that I agree with CA's actions - I actually have no use for the place - but CA has set regs for product within CA. They haven't required anything of anyone else. If manufacturers feel it is best for them to build product for other markets to the same CA standards, that's their business. Nobody made them do it.

As for the WA regs applying only to recreational boats, I agree that's bad policy, and an enterprising attorney could probably get it overturned. It's arbitrarily applying a law to a particular group of people. It's no different from passing a law that applies only to people who live on streets that begin with the letter "A". I think they would have to show that recreational boats are the top contributor to copper pollution, or some other factual reason for singling them out. It's hard for me to believe they are the worst contributors, but maybe I'm wrong. I think it's probably just an easy group to pick on because there are no lobbying groups to oppose.
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Old 03-24-2017, 04:09 PM   #42
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My experience is that a lot of products are NOT for sale in Ca.....you have to buy a different model.

I think most manufactures have figured out how to meet the demands.

Maybe a boating attorney will push the issue like the one that started the battle against unfair anchoring laws in Fl.
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Old 03-24-2017, 05:16 PM   #43
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Well I am on the hard and I will be touching up my bottom paint. I am going to find the HIGHEST cooper base paint I can find!!!!! Environmental Waco Terrorist!!!
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Old 03-25-2017, 02:53 PM   #44
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Some people have too much time on there hands.
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Old 03-25-2017, 04:01 PM   #45
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Well I am on the hard and I will be touching up my bottom paint. I am going to find the HIGHEST cooper base paint I can find!!!!! Environmental Waco Terrorist!!!
Don't forget to mix in some cayenne pepper while you're at it.
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Old 03-25-2017, 05:38 PM   #46
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Well I am on the hard and I will be touching up my bottom paint. I am going to find the HIGHEST cooper base paint I can find!!!!! Environmental Waco Terrorist!!!

If you really want good results....search for tin based
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Old 03-25-2017, 06:44 PM   #47
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A friend here in the Eastern Caribbean is returning his boat to the US for sale. He has been told that if he enters US waters with a banned antifouling paint (Seahawk 44 I think) that he will have to remove it.

I understand that the banned antifouling paints cannot be sold (or applied?) in the US, but I have never heard that the paint must be removed from the bottom of a boat that has come into the US from outside of the US.

Does anyone have information on the issue as to whether this paint must be removed?

In this specific case the boat is not a US flagged vessel.
Tributyl tin paints are illegal for use or sale in the U.S. You cannot bring a boat painted with it into territorial waters.
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Old 03-25-2017, 06:51 PM   #48
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C'mon can you really see CPB or the local cops taking paint scrapings to a lab to determine tin content ?
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Old 03-25-2017, 06:53 PM   #49
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C'mon can you really see CPB or the local cops taking paint scrapings to a lab to determine tin content ?
If I knew of a boat using it, I wouldn't hesitate to dime the owner to the Coast Guard.
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Old 03-25-2017, 07:02 PM   #50
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Some people have too much time on there hands.
So much time that they post replies that have nothing to do with the topic.
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Old 03-25-2017, 07:02 PM   #51
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If I knew of a boat using it, I wouldn't hesitate to dime the owner to the Coast Guard.
and I'm sure your chronically underfunded CG would jump right on it with a swat team to take paint scrapings and send them to a lab while leaving a guard team to ensure the vessel didn't leave until the lab results were in ..... ain't gonna happen !

If it did happen, my claim would be that my bottom paint was contaminated by the tin from the exempt US warship upstream that is exempt from the tin ban.
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Old 03-25-2017, 07:05 PM   #52
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C'mon can you really see CPB or the local cops taking paint scrapings to a lab to determine tin content ?
That's what they will have to do if they outlaw copper based paint. Of course we will be paying for it somehow.
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Old 03-25-2017, 10:25 PM   #53
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So much time that they post replies that have nothing to do with the topic.
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Old 03-26-2017, 06:24 AM   #54
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Thanks fstbttms, for making the first factual comment here :-)

Here's some info on Tributyltin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tributyltin

The advice the boat owner received may well be correct. Tributyltin has been banned in the US since the 80's because it basically kills everything in the eco system, and has been subsequently banned by most civilized countries, as well as the IMO for ocean going ships. But it's still used in some places, for example, none other than the Caribbean.

Could you smuggle it in without getting caught? Probably.

Should you bring the boat here? No, please don't. Leave that crap where you find it.
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Old 03-26-2017, 06:27 AM   #55
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and I'm sure your chronically underfunded CG would jump right on it with a swat team to take paint scrapings and send them to a lab while leaving a guard team to ensure the vessel didn't leave until the lab results were in ..... ain't gonna happen !

If it did happen, my claim would be that my bottom paint was contaminated by the tin from the exempt US warship upstream that is exempt from the tin ban.
Just to be clear, this is not paint that contains tin. It's paint that contains tributyltin which is a chemical compound.
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Old 03-26-2017, 06:31 AM   #56
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Tributyl tin paints are illegal for use or sale in the U.S. You cannot bring a boat painted with it into territorial waters.
Exactly...the Cu ban sounds like tin ban of the 1980's.
Our first Boat had tin paint and the owner included what he had left...was sufficient to do several touch ups before switching to Cu...no paint police involved just couldn't but any more.
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Old 03-26-2017, 06:38 AM   #57
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And sure enough, Seahawk 44 is 10-25% Tributyltin, and advertised as the only TBT (Tributyltin) based paint available on the market.
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Old 03-26-2017, 06:46 AM   #58
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Greetings,
Mr. OC. Just out of curiosity, how would you know if a paint contained tin? Does it appear different or wear in a particular fashion?
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Old 03-26-2017, 09:05 AM   #59
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...my claim would be that my bottom paint was contaminated by the tin from the exempt US warship upstream that is exempt from the tin ban.
Except that one boats paint can't "contaminate" another's. Oh yeah, and the U.S. Navy doesn't use tbt paints. But why let a little thing like facts get in the way of a good, unhinged anti-American rant?
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Old 03-26-2017, 09:21 AM   #60
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REGULATIONS............REGULATIONS........REGULATI ONS!!!!!!

Yeah.............What this country is in desperate need of are more REGULATIONS!!! Are the Do-Gooders still trying to ban cow farts????

And Congress' 1988 ban on TBT paint did not apply to aluminum hulls nor aluminum outboard engines nor boats lengths greater than 25 meters. Of course who knows what out of control regulations states inact.
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