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Old 03-22-2017, 10:09 AM   #21
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Who and how would anyone know what bottom paint you had?
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Old 03-22-2017, 10:12 AM   #22
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It must have been in an earlier bill I saw that stated by 2020 no boat could be sold, new or used with copper paint.
First, are they going to require a paint inspection before a boat is sold? Who does it and who pays for it?

Second, and more important, how are they planning on restricting the use of a boat with copper bottom paint? If you and your boat are from another state and visiting WA, will they have patrol boats waiting for you with divers on board? What happens when each of the 50 states passes it's own conflicting laws?

Again, too much regulation. Because boats normally move from state to state, this should be controlled by Federal law, not by the individual states.
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Old 03-22-2017, 11:43 AM   #23
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My guess new regs will follow old.

In many states you have to sign a lead based paint document for house sales....

Whether it is enforced at the time of sales no big deal maybe....

But many laws like this have no statute of limitations...or they follow back to the original sin...

So you could be on the hook for as long as that boat might be inspected down the road.
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Old 03-22-2017, 06:02 PM   #24
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My guess new regs will follow old.

In many states you have to sign a lead based paint document for house sales....

Whether it is enforced at the time of sales no big deal maybe....

But many laws like this have no statute of limitations...or they follow back to the original sin...

So you could be on the hook for as long as that boat might be inspected down the road.
That would be my guess on how it would be enforced. The real problem is the new owner could always "discover" the copper when he felt like enforcing the warranty/representation against the seller.
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Old 03-22-2017, 07:58 PM   #25
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Should be good as long as the top layer is no copper? Or are we supposed to pay to blast all copper paint off the bottom? It never ends! Not surprised that WA is first to do this. The whole state is run by loons now.
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Old 03-22-2017, 08:09 PM   #26
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I believe one can sell a non-US flagged vessel in the US. Very frequently done by Canadians who buy boats in the US register them in Canada but pay neither the HST (Canadian Sales Tax) or the Canadian import duty. When it comes time to sell they frequently sell the boat in the US without ever paying these two Canadian taxes.
Sorry, thought I was on Cruisers Forum
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Old 03-22-2017, 08:15 PM   #27
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Gee weez. I don't want the paint police looking at my bottom!
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Old 03-22-2017, 08:47 PM   #28
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I believe one can sell a non-US flagged vessel in the US. Very frequently done by Canadians who buy boats in the US register them in Canada but pay neither the HST (Canadian Sales Tax) or the Canadian import duty. When it comes time to sell they frequently sell the boat in the US without ever paying these two Canadian taxes.
Bay Pelican:

This is so much drivel. First, in order to register a boat in Canada, you have to prove that the Canadian taxes have been paid. Before you get to the sales taxes, the Duty, if any has to be paid. When it comes time to sell, the new purchaser, has the same responsibilities, so if he/she is taking the boat out of Canada, then no new Canadian taxes apply, but those of the new home will have to be paid.

Second, no, this should be first!: you assume that Canadians are scofflaws. I beg to differ.

Third, you have it backwards. If I bring a non-US flagged boat to the US and sell it there, I, or the purchaser, has to go through the importation process, to make it into a US flagged vessel, paying all of the applicable duty and taxes. Never get the idea that the tax man will let you bring it in without doing so.
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Old 03-23-2017, 12:12 AM   #29
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Should be good as long as the top layer is no copper? Or are we supposed to pay to blast all copper paint off the bottom? It never ends! Not surprised that WA is first to do this. The whole state is run by loons now.
Aye Comrade! Unfortunately the entire state gets sucked into the eddy of the political whims of the Peoples Republic of King County.
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Old 03-23-2017, 08:23 AM   #30
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There was a great episode of Family Guy where everyone got all worked up about a news report of something that could have happened, but didn't actually. It was very funny, I guess because it spoke the ironic truth.
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Old 03-23-2017, 09:31 AM   #31
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Bay Pelican:

This is so much drivel. First, in order to register a boat in Canada, you have to prove that the Canadian taxes have been paid. Before you get to the sales taxes, the Duty, if any has to be paid. When it comes time to sell, the new purchaser, has the same responsibilities, so if he/she is taking the boat out of Canada, then no new Canadian taxes apply, but those of the new home will have to be paid.

Second, no, this should be first!: you assume that Canadians are scofflaws. I beg to differ.

Third, you have it backwards. If I bring a non-US flagged boat to the US and sell it there, I, or the purchaser, has to go through the importation process, to make it into a US flagged vessel, paying all of the applicable duty and taxes. Never get the idea that the tax man will let you bring it in without doing so.
Actually Bay Pelican is correct.
I personally know of a situation where that is happening, and he learned it from other CDN cruisers in the Caribbean.
Next year he will sell the boat either in the Caribbean or the US, and walk away paying no tax and having no tax owed in Canada because the boat never entered the country. He owed no tax at time of purchase because it was purchased in Florida and he removed it from the state before the 60 or 90 grace period expired.
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Old 03-23-2017, 09:42 AM   #32
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Actually Bay Pelican is correct.
Yes he is correct.
As a Transport Canada Appointed Tonnage Surveyor I'm involved in 4-6 registrations per month. I frequently do tonnage measurements outside of Canada for Canadian buyers (did one yesterday in the Bahamas).
No Canadian taxes or duties are due on a Canadian Registered vessel until the vessel enters Canada and duty is only payable on non-NAFTA vessels.
many Canadian vessels are purchased and then subsequently sold without ever entering Canada therefore, no taxes or duties are ever paid.
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Old 03-23-2017, 10:27 AM   #33
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EPA and others that make the rules don't appear to ever come out of their office. What is the effect of an inferior bottom paint? More fuel being used. More frequent haul outs. More bottom paint overall being used. More of a still toxic paint leaching into the environment. In wood boats there is no effective wood preserver like the old ones. So more replacement wood is used, more trees cut and so on. How long does a exposed house wood deck last? 20 years? My parents had one 80 years old.
How much more of the crappy diesel do we burn compared to older versions. And so on.
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Old 03-23-2017, 10:49 AM   #34
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Aye Comrade! Unfortunately the entire state gets sucked into the eddy of the political whims of the Peoples Republic of King County.
Amen!! King County runs the state!
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Old 03-23-2017, 02:41 PM   #35
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It must have been in an earlier bill I saw that stated by 2020 no boat could be sold, new or used with copper paint.
This can be confusing and by that I mean one state trying to force its regulations/laws onto an other state. No lawyer here so my interpretation of the Commerce Clause ( that states are divested of all power to regulate interstate commerce) may be decided by first determining what the meaning of is is. .

If my reading is correct, Washington State or any state for that matter has zero power to force other states to comply with its laws and regulations.
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Old 03-23-2017, 10:54 PM   #36
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Amen!! King County runs the state!
ASD, why don't we just follow King County's lead and declare our boats "Sanctuary Vessels"....and pick and choose which laws to obey!
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Old 03-24-2017, 07:00 AM   #37
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They have paint police now !

and ..... is it not illegal to sell a non-US boat in US waters ?
If that's the case, bye bye trawlers! At least a chunk of them.
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Old 03-24-2017, 10:12 AM   #38
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ASD, why don't we just follow King County's lead and declare our boats "Sanctuary Vessels"....and pick and choose which laws to obey!
Love It!!! Imagine the banner on the water right out in front of the waterfront!! I bet the cops would come out and make you move...
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Old 03-24-2017, 10:24 AM   #39
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This can be confusing and by that I mean one state trying to force its regulations/laws onto an other state. .............. .
The Federal Government let California get away with this years ago so there's no going back.

By this, I mean legislating stricter regulations on products to the point where prices were raised for everyone or manufacturers were forced to manufacture modified products for sale in CA.

So, it's already being done and the Feds gave up control over it.

The thing that many people miss on the Washington State regulation on copper based bottom paints is, it only applies to us recreational boaters. Commercial operators and the military can still use copper paint so what pollution is being avoided?
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Old 03-24-2017, 10:50 AM   #40
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For us this is pretty simple: Linda and I have the perfect plan! Just DON"T sell our boat! We plan to keep our Tolly till the cattle come home - so to say!
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