1935 65' Wooden Boat Hull Replacement options

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. PM. Rather harsh criticism of a newbie whom you do NOT know. All the person is looking for IMO is information. He does come off as someone who has little knowledge of the task before him or even what questions to ask but he has to start somewhere. I did not read any "boasts". Just chill out man. Give the guy the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Portage_Bay]

OP asked for options and costs. In my opinion Lepke gave the best answer regarding options in post #54. Costs guesstimates have been given by many. Unless backed by real experience with wooden boats they are nearly meaningless. Even with real wood boat experience cost estimates will be to a large extent wild guesses. You simply won't know what you're getting into until you start taking her apart. Cofer gave the advice to go into the project with clearly defined priorities and stick to them in post #41. As a young man in the mid 70s I worked at a couple of Seattle area boat yards where all we did was wood. I also owned an 1924 vintage woodie and cared for my father in law's 1940s vintage woodie. Here is what I learned, expressed in % not absolute dollar values.

Restoration cost 390% of purchase price and 7 years of my life. I did the bulk of the work myself.
Sold the boat for 60% of purchase price.
Keep in mind at the time she was "only" 51 yrs old at the start and "only" 58 yrs old when I quit. Your boat is now 84 yrs old.

I have since been associated with a yard that specialized in wood boats and I note some very significant changes since the 70s. All of the old shipwrights are gone. Those were craftsmen of impressive skills, hard working and very efficient at what they did. Hell they'd done for it a life time! The new breed mostly come out of wooden boat schools. Their craftsmanship is of a totally different kind. Slow, meticulous, museum quality work. Where an old shipwright from the 70s would get several planks in in a day, the new ones are lucky to get one plank in in a day.

Another change is the availability of quality boat lumber. It has become insanely expensive.

After restoration you now have routine upkeep. For example bright work. You've provided no pics of or specs of your boat so I went looking for Fellows and Stewart boats and found these two.
M/V Content
Lady Ben

Assuming yours at 65' is more like MV Content you will have two choices. Spend 10$ of thousands of $$$ year on varnish or spend all of your free time varnishing the boat.

As you move through your decision listen to your wallet as much as your heart. You will be forever during your stewardship of the boat replacing wood.

We haven't even touched on systems and machinery. How old are the systems and machinery?

In closing I too love wood boats. They in my opinion are more comfortable, quieter and just plain feel better than boats built of any other material. And I'm a nut to preserve the old. Hull, finishes, fittings, systems. All of it.

Not too long ago I escaped financial ruin. I fell in love with this one but a local shipwright beat me to the offer by a day. I should send him a sincere thank you.


Edit: Apologies for slighting TDunn who also gave great advice on options.

I am interested in purchasing a 1935 wooden boat 65' that will need hull restoration. I have read about various options, such as marine plywood, 5200, epoxy, fiberglass, etc. Any suggestions, experience, or recommendations, cost estimates?

 

[Art]

Some portions of this video are graphic in nature and may cause "boat-demo" distress. Please shut the video off if tears fill eyes past ability to see clearly. Otherwise... carry on!

That said: This video's contents clearly show the original hull-built components as well as the not-well adhered fiber skin that had been placed onto this boat's wooden hull. Superstructure and interior boat items are also displayed.

I bring this to you for informational purposes only! Be very careful trying to restore an old, not well cared for wood boat.

 

[Mako]

Wow, the ease at which that boat peels apart sends chills down me ole spine, thinking about hitting a little ice or deadhead in the water

 

[bayview]

you can see the obvious decay in the underlying wood.

Wood boats are wet and even if they are somehow dried out the wood still contains mold and salt. The salt will attract moisture from the air and mold will continue to grow both causing any coating to loose adhesion. I have personally seen planked boats with loose fiberglass. Wood expands and shrinks with the environmental conditions at different rates that fiberglass that also causes adhesion failure.

It is worth noting that that old boat in the video was still floating so I guess it depends on the objective of the person making the decision to fiberglass a boat. Will it float for a while, yes, will it be worth the money spent, probably not. As a family heirloom dock queen it may be fine.

 

[Pete Meisinger]

Sure I may sound a little harsh but Sn0b0ard 24 (O.P.) just is not forthcoming. He is talking about at least a 2 million dollar project, evidently all yard done, and has not presented any of his credentials or any real info on the boat.

T.F. members are taking time to respond to his questions with well thought out answers showing vision, experience and research. Many ask questions of the O.P. which will help formulate better answers.

What do we get in response ? NADA

About 5 minutes at his keyboard could answer all questions and prove he is not B.S.ing us.
I still think he is.

pete

 

[bayview]

Back when boats were wood boat yards all smelled the same. IMO it was a pleasant smell.

It was the smell of old boats slowly returning to the earth.

 

[Art]

Sure I may sound a little harsh but Sn0b0ard 24 (O.P.) just is not forthcoming. He is talking about at least a 2 million dollar project, evidently all yard done, and has not presented any of his credentials or any real info on the boat.

T.F. members are taking time to respond to his questions with well thought out answers showing vision, experience and research. Many ask questions of the O.P. which will help formulate better answers.

What do we get in response ? NADA

About 5 minutes at his keyboard could answer all questions and prove he is not B.S.ing us.
I still think he is.

pete

Gotta admit Pete... OP is too silent.

I don't think he's a complete BSer. He did mention on a post that this boat is from a close relative and there appears to be some "family" energy making him to want to save it.

OP does need to join into more revealing posts. Photos are needed!!

 

[tiltrider1]

Just think about how rare a 65’ boat was in 1935. Was this a fish boat, a work boat or a Yacht. Think how expensive it is to maintain a modern 65’ boat. Think about how ridiculous expensive it is to bring back a non maintained boat. Then think how expensive it would be to bring back a 1935 non maintained wood boat. It quickly falls into one of two categories, either you have so much money cost is not an issue or you haven’t a clue what you are asking and not a hope of having the money. Those with the money, have people to find the answers for them. The others are doomed to a hard slap of reality.

I’m hoping this whole thread is a joke. If it’s not, I hope the OP has gotten the message that 65’ and cheap are an Oxymoron, as is 1935 and cheap, as is wood boat and cheap.

 

[Lepke]

Actually salt is the friend of wood boats. A long time ago I was a shipwright in a yard that repaired commercial wood boats and barges. Some were small ships. In the old days of wood boats, salt boxes were built between the ribs, close under the deck. With a proper curved deck any condensation or leaks flow under the deck to the sides and run thru the salt boxes. The heavily salted water preserves the ribs, planking and eventually the bilge. It will make wood so hard, it can only be cut with a metal saw blade.
I have an 83', almost 80 year old wood boat. It spent its life in salt water. The wood from the waterline down is still in excellent shape. The problems were all in the planking from the waterline up.

 

[Juggerknot]

First, find a knowledgable wood boat surveyor, a real shipwright, then find a good yard willing to take her on, then if all looks doable, pull the trigger. For what it's worth, I love old woodies but believe cold molding with a fg or aramid skin is the way to go. Great strength, the warmth and charm of a strip built hull without the hassles of wood. I'm at 10° N latitude so borers are lined up like fatties at the Chinese buffet, a cold molded composite build is the only practical wood boat for me. Fair winds and good luck.

 

[bayview]

Yes I understand salt preserves wood and salt shelves were common to add salt under leaky decks. FG adhesion requires dry wood but salt also absorbs moisture and the dry wood will swell causing adhesion problems.

 

[Solly]

Some of you guys are awfully hard on a guy asking for advice. Fellows and Stewart made some nice boats pre WW II. During the war they made Subchasers and Patrol boats for the Navy. Google it.
I know nothing of wood boats but if I was doing it I'd first find a yard that could haul it out. Then have them recommend someone skilled in wood boat repair and have him look at it.
Condition, condition, condition... And remember boat work costs twice what your told and takes 3 times as long. Or is it costs 3 times and twice as long......

 

[FF]

"The wood from the waterline down is still in excellent shape. The problems were all in the planking from the waterline up."

If wood is too dry , "Dry Rot" can not happen.

If wood is too wet "Dry Rot" can not happen.

The problems are going from wet to dry , or dry to wet , the wood passes thru the dry rot zone .

Many fishing boats are made at low cost , so the wood is less seasoned than ideal.

This accelerates the rot when passing thru the zone. Salting became common over holidays..

The best cure is the almost impossible task of keeping the hull dry enough (no deck leaks) and a really good ceiling to help dry the hull between the ribs.

Capt H. was a master at this ,many of the boats his yard built still swim!

 

[smacmanus]

Labor of love

I'm not a shipwright, but have built several boats, and refurbished one in that was 65 feet. I hired a shipwright to work with me on its rebuild...a wooden plank hull in the 65+ ft range,...and I loved it...BUT, wooden boats are truly a labor of love. If you want to be on the water, you do not need a wooden boat. If you want a wooden boat, it becomes it's own lifestyle, and you should be prepared for the time and money your heart strings are going to cost you. I can tell you that I have discovered few things more satisfying than being on the water in a boat you built....but also that I no longer have wooden boats. My two cents.

 

[old-School]

I will amen this advise. I have asked my wife to have me committed under the Baker Act if I ever became serious about another wooden boat, even if it was the Mayflower.

 

[tadhana]

I have not seen the boat, and I did not sleep at Holiday Inn last night. But I am a boat builder. I have built and rebuilt wooden boats. I would not touch it unless you have very deep pockets and good woodworking skills. Wooden boat building skills are quite different from home building skills.

 

[Alisske]

Watch this series. You’ll need it.

Just awesome show about working old boats. Even though I have a fiberglass hull with teal decks, it’s helped me understand how to approach projects.

 

[Screaming04]

I watched as someone spent 400,000 restoring The hull of a 65 foot wood Cruiser. Neglected for years, it had some rotten frames, dozens of planks replaced as well as 15 feet of the bow.

It made sense to the owner as the topsides were good and a similar new boat would cost roughly 2 million. It didn’t make any sense to me, nor anyone else in the boatyard.

 

[Art]

I spent years when young... working on and around wooden boats [in boat yards, NY and ME]. Also, often traveling on wooden boats. At end of my boat-effort days I worked at new builder of fiberglass and wood boats.

I love wood boats that are in good/great condition, and, detest wood boats in poor/screwed-up condition. Reason... I know wooden boats!

If you want to work to pick-up an old 65' woodie that needs to be picked-back-up... well... best luck and know that you have been well warned by those of us who have "Been There - Done That!

Happy 2019/2020 Holidays

 

[T210DRVR]

I don’t know much about wood boats. What i’ve learned from my boat neighbors in my marina is that they are labors of love. Most have hundreds if not thousands of hours of labor and the projects are far from complete. It seems that the deeper you get the more problems that you find. If you have years of labor available, a reasonable pocket full of money, and the desire to take on a project that may span years then certainly go for it. Just don’t delude yourself into believing it will be an investment that will yield a positive financial outcome at the end.

 

[Chuck34]

Unless one is absurdly wealthy, the very idea of attempting to preserve a 65 foot wood boat without EXTENSIVE knowledge and direct experience is utter folly.

It's "this old house" to the nth degree.

What Sabre says. Unless you have really deep pockets, walk away. This will run 6 figures in the blink of an eye

 

[Bill Wells]

I would start with a good stiff out of the water survey and then start figuring costs. You could easily get into 6 figures, maybe even high 6 figures! She is probably carvel planked I would stick to that. Hopefully she has been refastened a time or two below the water line.

 

[dsherburn]

The only advice I could add is perhaps look for a smaller wood boat to gain some experience. Big Boat =Big Problem. I frogged around on an old Chris Craft Connie and learned a bunch and ended up with a decent "user" boat.

 

[Dzlpwr1]

It can be done...

I bought a 40' wood trawler a year ago. I highly recommend a book by Jim Trefethen: Wooden boat renovation. His book was the inspiration for my adventure. I had very little woodworking experience, but plenty of mechanical. I was able to enjoy this boat all summer with my family. It's an enormous amount of work, but we got a pretty good size boat on the water for a reasonable price. Yes, I used 5200, West, Tar. Whatever it took! I'll never see any return on this boat... but who cares! My kids are on the water and won't ever forget the experience!!

65' would be a little intimidating to me... but if you know what you are getting into... go for it!
Justin

 

[cbouch]

The reason why you cannot use “modern techniques “ on wooden blanked (and it most certainly is due to its vintage” is that wood planks move. They swell up and shrink whereas the new epoxies. Etc do not resulting in eventual separation of the planks and fiberglass. They then rot from the inside out. You might be better off preserving pieces of it like the helm in memory of your grand parent.

 

[Chuck34]

As others have mentioned...refastening.
While, for certain, it has been done once before, maybe even twice, there is the possibility it needs to be done again.
Just to buy the screws could be anywhere from $5-10,000. And the labor? Let's just say, a whole lot more.
Like I said earlier, fixing up this boat will quickly hit 6 figures and like the Ever-Ready bunny, just keeps going and going and.....

 

[thataway]

A few comments: I used to hang out at Fellows and Stuart--when my dad's 26' wooden boat was docked fairly close to F &.S. (A friend surveyed this boat built in 1935, and told me it was in excellent condition) She was Port Orford Cedar on Oak frames--most of which were massive for a boat that size. My dad refastened her with Silicone Bronze screws. Most of the yachts that Fellows and Stuart built were strong and had good reputations, if cared for.

A close friend did glass his 30 foot sailboat (Built in 1928) and sailed it from Calif. to the Med and back. As soon as he got back, he started a 4 year full time restoration of the boat. He has owned wooden boats all of his life, and this one over 50 years...He replaced plank by plank sistered some frames, but most were built new.

I owned a 62 foot fiberglass ketch. There were two schooners: Rose of Sharon and Land Fall. on each side. The owners were replacing planks every year.

We stayed at the German Kiel Yacht Club, which was run by the British Royal engineers and there were 10 eight meter sloops built for and used in the 1936 Olympics. These were taken as war prizes by the Brits. The boats had been hidden during WWII and survived pretty much intact, but a bit worse for the wear/war. These 8 meters were being used for R & R by the Royal Engineers, in Kiel (1984). Only one was going to be scrapped. It was the only one which had been sheathed in glass and epoxy. Dry rot had attacked enough of the interior frames, and planks, they felt it was not restorable. The rest were being sailed on a seasonal basis. Above the water, the wood planks had to "breath" swell and contract. Putting on glass does not allow this to occur.

The 65 foot boat may be viable. If the boat is on the West Coast, you live in Miami, shipping (probably best is on its own bottom, but one of the yacht transport vessels, might undertake it--if a very special cradle were built. I doubt it would survive, with the normal supports of steel which are welded to the transport ship's deck, which would not give enough support to an older hull.

The key is finding a surveyor who is really knowledgeable on wooden boats. Not a lot of them left....Good luck if you do forward.

 

[Chuck34]

I'm guessing since the OP hasn't responded in 4-5 days, he got the message that everyone was trying to get thru to him and is passing on this project

 

[bogranjac1]

Either that or he's not impressed with T.F. due to content of some postings.