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hmason

hmason

Guru
Joined
Aug 9, 2013
Messages
2,764
Location
USA
Vessel Name
Lucky Lucky
Vessel Make
Pacific Mariner 65
This is odd. We are heading north from FL to CT. Before we left I changed the carbon filter in the "whole house" water filter. Everything was fine for about 10 days. Now at the end of a day of cruising, I need to shut off the breaker to the water pump and turn it on again to get the pump to work. Can the two be related?
 
Is it an electronic variable speed pump? I had one of the original ones and had to cycle the breaker to reset electronics everytime it stopped. Defender took it back, no questions asked. Went back to basic pumps and expansion tank.
 
I had a variable speed pump in a previous boat. It made lots of strange noises, almost sounded like groaning. The water pressure was never good. I also went back to a standard pump with the large pressure tank.
 
I do not see the link between your carbon filter and switching off/on your pump breaker... Better investigate on the pump side itself.

When you switch your breaker off, d you wait some time to switch it back on or just off then on?
L.
 
Pump is single speed. Breaker gets turned off then immediately on. I have now bypassed the filter. Water pressure at the tap has seemed a bit low. Bypassing the filter has helped that. We'll see how it goes today.
 
Its fairly common for the pressure switch on the pump to fail. That switch is the only thing that turns the pump on and off.

Ken
 
What make and model of pump do you have. As I recall, I think you said it was original for the boat. Wonder if it has brushes and they're getting tired.

Ted
 
The breaker may be on its way out. If you can, hook a DVM on DC volts as close as possible to the pump. Run the water and watch the voltage while the pump cycles. If the volts are dropping more than say 2-3 volts, the breaker contacts may have high resistance. Resetting the breaker may temporarily make a good contact that degrades over use.
Coincidentally, yesterday I had to replace a breaker that feeds my horn for the same reason. Only 2 volts were making it to the horn. Without the horn connected, perfect 12.7 volts at the leads. The voltage drop cause was the breaker internal contacts.
 
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The pump is a Groco Paragon Senior--a mere 2.5 boat units. Removing the filter did not help. When I turn the breaker on and off the pump runs again. Oddly, the taps spurt air as if the pump is priming itself. Can't locate any air leaks or water leaks. When it's working it does not cycle when there is no demand. No water leaks that I can find. No bilge pump cycling.
 
Does it use a traditional well pressure switch? If so, next time it doesn't run, jump the contacts with a wire. Also, you might inspect them for carbon build up or pitting.

Ted
 
The mystery continues. It appears that the problem becomes worse as the level of water in the tank drops. More air "spurts" at the taps and the Vacuflush. When the pump shuts down, simply turning the circuit breaker off and then on starts the pump again---no waiting time. I've tightened every hose clamp I can find, and removed the "whole house" filter. No joy. The pressure switch seems to function perfectly when the pump is running. The accumulator tank was put in new about 4 months ago so I doubt it's that. I don't think it's the thermal protector as the pump turns on again instantly when I "cycle" the CB. The one thing I am suspecting at this time is a failing impeller in the pump.

I've hit the end of my test cycle and have a marine plumber coming on Monday.
 
"The one thing I am suspecting at this time is a failing impeller in the pump."

Mount your on board spare.
 
Mystery solved---maybe. Had a tech on the boat today. He began by asking me the details, showing him the pump and water tank locations. He immediately discovered a small water drip from the edge of the inline large particle water filter. The one before the pump with a screen in it. He removed the bowl of the filter and discovered that the gasket had a cut in it and a deformed spot as well. He said if water is dripping out, when the pump runs it is probably pulling air in.

He tried to get a gasket but could not locate one locally. It's an "O" ring but it has a square shape. Rather than hold up our trip north, I coated the old "O" ring and the bowl threads with T-9, a thread sealer that is potable water safe. So far so good. No leaks and no air in the line. I'll order the correct gasket when I get home and install it properly. Sure beats needing a new pump. Sometimes a tech knows what he's doing. Kudos to Atlantic Yacht Basin in Chesapeake, VA.
 
Well I received the new gasket from Groco and installed it in the inline particle filter. The air in the lines has lessened but still appears on occasion. The pump still shuts down once in awhile during the night. The interesting part is that the fixtures furthest from the pump have the most air in the line. The galley sink which is the closest to the pump has no air in the line. Any ideas folks?
 
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FF told me about a trick for my raw water side. I started at the intake thru hull and swabbed heavy grease on every connection until the air bubbles quit in my strainer. The grease sucked in and sealed where the leak was . Maybe use some plumbers grease or something safe for consumption on all connections on the suction side until the air stops .
 
Do you think air is entering from the supply side of the pump? I seem to have a similar issue and it may not be pump related.
 
Check the tank vent by loosening the fill cap. It doesn't sound like a venting issue, but that would be easy to eliminate as a possible cause.
 
Have you tried temporarily bypassing/removing the inline particle filter to rule it out as the cause completely?
 
I spoke to a Groco tech. He said the symptoms are a definite sign that the pump end needs a rebuild. The rebuild kit should arrive today or tomorrow and I'll give it a shot. Will report back when I'm done.
 
And the final answer is:

I removed the pump and began the rebuild. First step is separating the pump head from the motor shaft. It came apart easily. Next step was to separate the two halves of the pump body. That took a gear puller and a big socket wrench along with a shot or two of scotch. No joy. The yacht club manager and I took it up to the shop and put one half in a vise and tried to remove the other half. No joy. The club manager called a boat mechanic that is a close friend of his. He came to visit very quickly and determined how to separate the halves. Unfortunately he had to give up as he could not figure it out.

Phase two: I called a local electric motor and pump repair company and explained the problem. They said to bring it to them with the rebuild kit. They took a look and estimated an hour and a half of labor and a charge of $120. In about 2 hours they asked me to come back and pick it up. All fixed! Charged me $91.67 including tax.

We now have water without sputtering air and the crew is happy. Oh, happy days.
 
BTW. In the interim I purchased a West Marine 4.0 GPM water pump which I jury rigged as a replacement. If you ever choose to buy one be aware that there are no instructions for installation other than a diagram which shows the inlet side of the pump and the outlet side reversed. So, when you do the install it sends water in the wrong direction. Second, it sounds like a fighter jet when it turns on. It develops 60 PSI and is not adjustable. I think that's high pressure for for a boat plumbing system. To top it off, it does not come with screws to bolt it in place. The pump is made in China by Flojet. Becareful if you buy one, it might be the one I returned today.
 
hmason said:
BTW. In the interim I purchased a West Marine 4.0 GPM water pump which I jury rigged as a replacement. If you ever choose to buy one be aware that there are no instructions for installation other than a diagram which shows the inlet side of the pump and the outlet side reversed. So, when you do the install it sends water in the wrong direction. Second, it sounds like a fighter jet when it turns on. It develops 60 PSI and is not adjustable. I think that's high pressure for for a boat plumbing system. To top it off, it does not come with screws to bolt it in place. The pump is made in China by Flojet. Becareful if you buy one, it might be the one I returned today.
Click to expand...
After all that hassle, considering the rebuild kit and the labor charge, did you save much money versus just replacing with a new pump? Just wondering.
 
"Second, it sounds like a fighter jet when it turns on. It develops 60 PSI and is not adjustable."

Perhaps it was a deck washing pump?

I only purchase Sure Flow , and unless you have a washer or dish washer the low dollar unit should be just fine.

SHURFLO® Fresh Water Pumps
 
To answer questions above:

The West unit is definitely a domestic water pump. Read the reviews on the West site and you will find complaints matching mine. We do have a clothes washer/dryer that is used constantly as we live aboard. Was it worth it? Probably as it is a pump still made today and retails at $2,300. It is a bullet proof pump that failed only due to wear items needing replacement after 21 years. It now runs like new.
 
hmason said:
To answer questions above:

The West unit is definitely a domestic water pump. Read the reviews on the West site and you will find complaints matching mine. We do have a clothes washer/dryer that is used constantly as we live aboard. Was it worth it? Probably as it is a pump still made today and retails at $2,300. It is a bullet proof pump that failed only due to wear items needing replacement after 21 years. It now runs like new.
Click to expand...

$2,300? Yeah, worth the cost of repair.
 
BB, thanks, that's valuable information that I have printed and filed for the future if needed. It's interesting that there is no mention of spurting air at the faucets which was our first sign of trouble.
 
GB did a great job specifying a good well built pump.

Do they stick to such high quality outfitting today ?
 
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