Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-18-2022, 07:34 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
Constellation1's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota, FL
Vessel Name: Constellation
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 143
Whale pump problem

I have just installed the Whale sump box with a Gulper 220 pump. I was expecting great results as I upgraded from the original Atwood box with flora switch and tiny bilge pump setup. There is a problem with the pump as I can feel air coming out of a hole near the backside of the pump head. There is air in the system so it is not pumping well and is very noisy. I have re-seated the diaphragm twice so I’m confident that is not the issue, but I’m confused by the air coming out of the pump. Does anyone experienced this and have a solution?
__________________
Cheers,

Den
M/V Constellation
Constellation1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2022, 07:43 AM   #2
Guru
 
ScottC's Avatar
 
City: Malmö
Vessel Name: ABsolutely FABulous
Vessel Model: Greenline 33 Hybrid (2010)
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 1,126
Next thing I would check is what I call the "Joker" valve. See picture below. On the few occasions I've had trouble with my Whale gulper 220, they always seem to come back to this. Not seated properly or distorted or debris stuck in it, etc.
Attached Thumbnails
Joker.jpg  
__________________
Scott
2010 Greenline 33' Hybrid
Home port: Malmö, SWEDEN
Currently in: Marina di Pisa, ITALY
ScottC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2022, 07:49 AM   #3
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Walkabout Creek
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 7,569
It looks like the pump head can be loosened and rotated to any convenient orientation. Are you sure you are hooked up to the inlet and not the outlet of the pump. It would be a silly, but easy mistake to make.
__________________
MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2022, 07:56 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
Constellation1's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota, FL
Vessel Name: Constellation
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 143
I will pull out that valve and check it. I’m confident that my in and out orientation is correct, but thanks. The pump is definitely ‘gulping’ loud but I can see air in the short line between the sump tank and the pump. Haven’t been able to get the pump to purge this.

Does anyone know if these pumps can be connected reverse polarity - could that be my issue?
__________________
Cheers,

Den
M/V Constellation
Constellation1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2022, 08:01 AM   #5
Guru
 
City: Rochester, NY
Vessel Name: Hour Glass
Vessel Model: Chris Craft Catalina 381
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 4,985
I've only used the gulper in a direct shower drain to discharge application (no sump), but at least in that application, they're always loud (and often spit back slightly past the joker valve in the real world where you've got soap scum, hair, etc.). That said, I've got one that was put in 10+ years ago and has never been touched since and it just keeps working.
rslifkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2022, 08:02 AM   #6
Guru
 
ScottC's Avatar
 
City: Malmö
Vessel Name: ABsolutely FABulous
Vessel Model: Greenline 33 Hybrid (2010)
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 1,126
Does it pump water out very well at all?

Check that adequate air is able to come IN to the tank. In other words, if all drains have their stoppers in...and there is no other vent, the pump will not be able to suck water out. Unlikely, I know - but I ended up installing a dedicated vent to my whale sump tank because of unique circumstances on my boat that inhibited proper pumping.


P.S. I've always found this pump annoyingly loud - so the loudness you hear may not be related to the problem...


P.P.S. An easy way to test for whether you need more venting is to fill the tank then, as it's pumping out, slightly unscrew the clear plastic cover so it lets air in. If that changes the behavior of anything for the better...then it suggests a need for venting (or similar)
__________________
Scott
2010 Greenline 33' Hybrid
Home port: Malmö, SWEDEN
Currently in: Marina di Pisa, ITALY
ScottC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2022, 08:05 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
Constellation1's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota, FL
Vessel Name: Constellation
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by rslifkin View Post
I've only used the gulper in a direct shower drain to discharge application (no sump), but at least in that application, they're always loud (and often spit back slightly past the joker valve in the real world where you've got soap scum, hair, etc.). That said, I've got one that was put in 10+ years ago and has never been touched since and it just keeps working.
I appreciate the reply. I’m close to putting the old system back in as it worked and was quiet. I was expecting this to be a significant upgrade. I have AC condensation lines that run into the box or would have gone with the same setup as yours.
__________________
Cheers,

Den
M/V Constellation
Constellation1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2022, 08:08 AM   #8
Guru
 
City: Rochester, NY
Vessel Name: Hour Glass
Vessel Model: Chris Craft Catalina 381
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 4,985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constellation1 View Post
I appreciate the reply. I’m close to putting the old system back in as it worked and was quiet. I was expecting this to be a significant upgrade. I have AC condensation lines that run into the box or would have gone with the same setup as yours.

In my mind, the primary benefit of the gulper over something like a small Rule pump in a sump box is that the gulper will process hair and other junk without clogging, which means less maintenance (although a sump box will still need periodic cleaning).



Out of curiosity, how high above the waterline are your AC units? 2 of mine are up high enough that they're just plumbed to gravity drain over the side.
rslifkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2022, 08:08 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
Constellation1's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota, FL
Vessel Name: Constellation
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 143
Hi Scott,

It pumps water out poorly. Gulping is an appropriate term for this pump as that’s what I hear. There is no stream of water coming out the discharge it it spitting out a bit of water with each gulp. I can see air in the line between the sump box and the pump - which is only about 6” long.

I would expect a very hard stream of water overboard for a short period of time.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottC View Post
Does it pump water out very well at all?

Check that adequate air is able to come IN to the tank. In other words, if all drains have their stoppers in...and there is no other vent, the pump will not be able to suck water out. Unlikely, I know - but I ended up installing a dedicated vent to my whale sump tank because of unique circumstances on my boat that inhibited proper pumping.


P.S. I've always found this pump annoyingly loud - so the loudness you hear may not be related to the problem...


P.P.S. An easy way to test for whether you need more venting is to fill the tank then, as it's pumping out, slightly unscrew the clear plastic cover so it lets air in. If that changes the behavior of anything for the better...then it suggests a need for venting (or similar)
__________________
Cheers,

Den
M/V Constellation
Constellation1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2022, 08:10 AM   #10
Guru
 
ScottC's Avatar
 
City: Malmö
Vessel Name: ABsolutely FABulous
Vessel Model: Greenline 33 Hybrid (2010)
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 1,126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constellation1 View Post
Does anyone know if these pumps can be connected reverse polarity - could that be my issue?


I looked in the manual and found: "NOTE: The pump is protected against reverse polarity connection (The inline fuse will blow)"
__________________
Scott
2010 Greenline 33' Hybrid
Home port: Malmö, SWEDEN
Currently in: Marina di Pisa, ITALY
ScottC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2022, 08:10 AM   #11
Guru
 
City: Rochester, NY
Vessel Name: Hour Glass
Vessel Model: Chris Craft Catalina 381
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 4,985
Being a single diaphragm, the gulper will always move water in bursts. Each pump cycle will move a burst of water, so you'll never get a steady stream.
rslifkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2022, 08:14 AM   #12
Guru
 
ScottC's Avatar
 
City: Malmö
Vessel Name: ABsolutely FABulous
Vessel Model: Greenline 33 Hybrid (2010)
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 1,126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constellation1 View Post
Hi Scott,

It pumps water out poorly. Gulping is an appropriate term for this pump as that’s what I hear. There is no stream of water coming out the discharge it it spitting out a bit of water with each gulp. .

That makes me suspect the Joker valve even more. It is a form of check valve...
__________________
Scott
2010 Greenline 33' Hybrid
Home port: Malmö, SWEDEN
Currently in: Marina di Pisa, ITALY
ScottC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2022, 08:18 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
Constellation1's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota, FL
Vessel Name: Constellation
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by rslifkin View Post
Being a single diaphragm, the gulper will always move water in bursts. Each pump cycle will move a burst of water, so you'll never get a steady stream.
Perhaps my expectations were too high? It is moving water in bursts and it is noisy 😃. Does yours run for a couple of minutes at a time while you’re showering? I was expecting it to run for short bursts as it purged the sump tank - but it runs much longer than anticipated.

If it is operating as designed, what’s the benefit? That I don’t have to clean the sump box as often? So far I’m unimpressed.
__________________
Cheers,

Den
M/V Constellation
Constellation1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2022, 08:23 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
Constellation1's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota, FL
Vessel Name: Constellation
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottC View Post
That makes me suspect the Joker valve even more. It is a form of check valve...
I know that the joker valve is in place and I can blow through one way and not the other. Should I take it out and fully inspect it to ensure there isn’t another issue with it?
__________________
Cheers,

Den
M/V Constellation
Constellation1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2022, 08:24 AM   #15
Guru
 
City: Rochester, NY
Vessel Name: Hour Glass
Vessel Model: Chris Craft Catalina 381
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 4,985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constellation1 View Post
Perhaps my expectations were too high? It is moving water in bursts and it is noisy 😃. Does yours run for a couple of minutes at a time while you’re showering? I was expecting it to run for short bursts as it purged the sump tank - but it runs much longer than anticipated.

If it is operating as designed, what’s the benefit? That I don’t have to clean the sump box as often? So far I’m unimpressed.

Mine is on a switch, so you turn it on before getting in the shower and turn it off when done. The gulper doesn't care about running dry, so it just runs the whole time (only downside is noise).



In a sump box application, I don't see a lot of advantage to the gulper, honestly. In a direct pump application, the ability to process hair and such without issue is a big benefit (no need for a filter that needs frequent cleaning or anything).
rslifkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2022, 08:27 AM   #16
Guru
 
ScottC's Avatar
 
City: Malmö
Vessel Name: ABsolutely FABulous
Vessel Model: Greenline 33 Hybrid (2010)
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 1,126
It, does, indeed, take "small gulps". 50 gulps would not be unexpected to empty my tank (which is the larger, 16L size). When I suspect it is running too long, I count the gulps...and if it reaches something closer to 100 before it shuts off, I know it's time for me to open up the tank and clean any scum off of the electronic float switch, as the scum is keeping it from detecting the lower water level fast enough.
__________________
Scott
2010 Greenline 33' Hybrid
Home port: Malmö, SWEDEN
Currently in: Marina di Pisa, ITALY
ScottC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2022, 08:29 AM   #17
Senior Member
 
Constellation1's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota, FL
Vessel Name: Constellation
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 143
One of my AC unit’s is very low - at the water line.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rslifkin View Post
In my mind, the primary benefit of the gulper over something like a small Rule pump in a sump box is that the gulper will process hair and other junk without clogging, which means less maintenance (although a sump box will still need periodic cleaning).



Out of curiosity, how high above the waterline are your AC units? 2 of mine are up high enough that they're just plumbed to gravity drain over the side.
__________________
Cheers,

Den
M/V Constellation
Constellation1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2022, 08:33 AM   #18
Senior Member
 
Constellation1's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota, FL
Vessel Name: Constellation
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 143
Whale just asked me to send them a video. I will do that and report back. My belief now is that I was expecting too much 😃. Stand by.
__________________
Cheers,

Den
M/V Constellation
Constellation1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2022, 12:55 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
Constellation1's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota, FL
Vessel Name: Constellation
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 143
Whale's opinion is indecisive. First they say that after viewing the video that the pump appears to be working correctly. You can see air in the hose between the sump and the pump - that can't be right. Then they say that there must be an air leak either at the sump connection or the pump inlet ... Everything is brand new and the connections are solid.

From here I am going to add a 90 degree connector to the hose going from the sump to the pump as I don't like the bend in the hose, and I will check the tricuspid valve as well. If I can get rid of the air, while I'm still underwhelmed, I think it will be working as it was designed.
__________________
Cheers,

Den
M/V Constellation
Constellation1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2022, 04:53 PM   #20
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in the Great Lakes
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 10,899
I have a whale system for my shower sump and have been extremely happy with it. The pump is mounted in the engine room so noise is very minimal. I did have a failure with the pump at around 13 years old. Swapped it out with the spare I had. The diaphragm tore. Defender Marine stocks the rebuild kit at a very reasonable price. So it was a very simple matter to rebuild the pump end.

For the trouble you're having, I would disassemble the pump end and check all the components. It's incredibly easy to work on.

Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
O C Diver is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012