Water pump GPM and brands question/recommendations

[Streff]

The boat currently has a 2010 Johnson water pump SPXFLOW (5.2 gpm,cut in at 25psi, shutoff at 41psi) with a 10gallon expansion tank. I was in the process of buying the exact same pump as backup. It seems that the new Johnson pumps are of inferior quality with a mere 30-day warranty with many examples of dissatisfied buyer, after the company changed ownership.

What water pump brands would TF members recommend as high quality options, please?

On a more technical front, since there is an expansion tank, would a pump with a lower gpm (such as 4gpm) affect the current performance of the system? I also noticed that newer pumps have higher cut in psi with shutoff psi close to 60-70. Would I be correct in assuming that 60-70psi would be dangerous for pipe connections circa 1990?

Thank you in advance for any input or guidance that you may have.


Streff

 

[Pete Meisinger]

Get a variable rate pump, ditch the pressure tank and hold the old pump for a spar or wash down pump.

pete

 

[twistedtree]

Are you sure these reports as associated with Johnson Pumps, and not the various Xylem-acquired pump manufacturers like Rule and Jabsco? Everything Xylem touches seems to go to crap, but this is the first I have heard of issues with Johnson pumps. Very disappointing if it's true.

 

[twistedtree]

I just took a look and the Johnson pump warranty is 3 years, not 30 days. Even Jabsco has a 1-2 year warranty depending on the product.


Are you sure these reports are about Johnson and not Jabsco? Lots of issues with Jabsco, and easy to confuse the two.

 

[Streff]

Last Tuesday, I was in the process of locating & ordering the Johnson pump at my local yacht shop, when I started chatting with the owner. He did mention that they were getting more returns than usual. Challenging to navigate with the 30-day factory warranty, so he has been accommodating refunds & exchanges up to 90 days.

I decided to wait and do my research which took me to an Amazon link where some of the recent reviews confirmed what I heard at the shop. I also dug in reviews on Amazon canada and found similar comments.

Pete, I am not familiar with variable speed pumps, except for our VS pool pumps. I will study up and look into it. Reclaiming the space currently taken by the expansion tank will be a welcome e bonus.

 

[caltexflanc]

Definitely research the VSP pumps. Anecdotally I have never come across a long term happy owner. Maybe now if Pete is one. Personally I prefer the pump, pressure switch and expansion tank to be all individual components. For one thing, it is easier to adjust cut in and cut out pressure. The tank pressure should be a couple of PSI below the cut in setting.

One alternative to consider is a shallow well pump running off the inverter, shore and/or generator. Especially if you have the room to install it in parallel to the DC pump; they can both use the same pressure tank. We had this set up and loved it. May be overkill for the casual yachtsman; we lived aboard full time.

Also in our system for a DC pump was a refurbished Galley Maid from Raz Marine. Very heavy duty and completely field serviceable. Not cheap and a bit noisy, as most fresh water pumps are.

As always, giving Depco Pump a call and discussing your needs is time well spent, plus they are great folks to do business with.

 

[tiltrider1]

Don’t ditch the accumulator tank. Even VS pumps mention in their fine print that they live longer when used with an accumulator tank.

My experience with Shure flow and Jabsco VS pumps is reasonable. I have averaged between 5-7 years on fresh water. I am a liveaboard which means I work them frequently.

I have recently installed a Marco. It is a screw pump rather than a diaphragm pump. Like sureflow and jabsco it is a VS pump. I still use an accumulator tank. It moves a lot more water and responds quicker but I won’t know if it’s worth the extra money for another 8 years.

 

[Woodland Hills]

Definitely research the VSP pumps. Anecdotally I have never come across a long term happy owner. Maybe now if Pete is one. Personally I prefer the pump, pressure switch and expansion tank to be all individual components. For one thing, it is easier to adjust cut in and cut out pressure. The tank pressure should be a couple of PSI below the cut in setting.

One alternative to consider is a shallow well pump running off the inverter, shore and/or generator. Especially if you have the room to install it in parallel to the DC pump; they can both use the same pressure tank. We had this set up and loved it. May be overkill for the casual yachtsman; we lived aboard full time.

Also in our system for a DC pump was a refurbished Galley Maid from Raz Marine. Very heavy duty and completely field serviceable. Not cheap and a bit noisy, as most fresh water pumps are.

As always, giving Depco Pump a call and discussing your needs is time well spent, plus they are great folks to do business with.

This is the system we have: a 120v shallow well pump and a GalleyMaid 32VDC pump with a remote pressure switch and tank. We are very happy with this.

We second the suggestion to liaise with Depco and Raz, both are helpful and both companies have a high level of professionalism. Not cheap, but you get what you pay for and their advice is free.

 

[twistedtree]

Last Tuesday, I was in the process of locating & ordering the Johnson pump at my local yacht shop, when I started chatting with the owner. He did mention that they were getting more returns than usual. Challenging to navigate with the 30-day factory warranty, so he has been accommodating refunds & exchanges up to 90 days.

I decided to wait and do my research which took me to an Amazon link where some of the recent reviews confirmed what I heard at the shop. I also dug in reviews on Amazon canada and found similar comments.

Pete, I am not familiar with variable speed pumps, except for our VS pool pumps. I will study up and look into it. Reclaiming the space currently taken by the expansion tank will be a welcome e bonus.

Where is this 30-day warranty coming from? Their published warranty is 3 years.

 

[Simi 60]

Last Tuesday, I was in the process of locating & ordering the Johnson pump at my local yacht shop, when I started chatting with the owner. He did mention that they were getting more returns than usual. Challenging to navigate with the 30-day factory warranty, so he has been accommodating refunds & exchanges up to 90 days.

A quick google

The following list describes Johnson Pump policies regarding warranty periods for the various ... Warranty. Period. All Water Pressure Pumps. 3 Years. All Washdown Pumps including kits. 3 Years

 

[catalinajack]

Yes, a shallow well pump if you have the space. Overkill in terms of volume and pressure delivery? Yes. But why would you care? We have a Grundfos pump that is a killer which does not require an expansion tank as it has its own. Always plenty of pressure and volume, no pulsating, NO PULSATING. But, it is a big pump but we have the space.
Runs on alternating current so a receptacle is needed. Just plug it in.

Definitely research the VSP pumps. Anecdotally I have never come across a long term happy owner. Maybe now if Pete is one. Personally I prefer the pump, pressure switch and expansion tank to be all individual components. For one thing, it is easier to adjust cut in and cut out pressure. The tank pressure should be a couple of PSI below the cut in setting.

One alternative to consider is a shallow well pump running off the inverter, shore and/or generator. Especially if you have the room to install it in parallel to the DC pump; they can both use the same pressure tank. We had this set up and loved it. May be overkill for the casual yachtsman; we lived aboard full time.

Also in our system for a DC pump was a refurbished Galley Maid from Raz Marine. Very heavy duty and completely field serviceable. Not cheap and a bit noisy, as most fresh water pumps are.

As always, giving Depco Pump a call and discussing your needs is time well spent, plus they are great folks to do business with.

 

[Simi 60]

Shallow well pumps smash out the water but are BRUTAL on amps

I got the smallest I could find
0.5hp
370 watts

But reality is when restricted by hose size that sucker is churning through 20+ amps on a 24v/240v setup.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Energy-...&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&redirect=mobile

Will be fine for everyday usage but I got it thinking I could run a brew through the still using this for cooling.
That requires 3 hours of water running

Back to using the 240v 30 litre/m magnetic drive pump that uses about 2 amps
Be good if they had a pressure switch on them, I wonder why none do?

 

[lwarden]

Timely thread. I happen to have a Johnson Pumps - 10-13329-103 Aqua Jet Flow MSTR Pump 5 GPM in my Amazon cart and will be pulling the trigger on it soon.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0041UDPNY/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_1?smid=AWPBFTW0ZXVPR&psc=1

I found a few negative comments about this pump, but those running with an accumulator have praises for it. To be honest, there aren't that many reviews that I can find. Is this the pump you have currently which you are looking to get a spare for?

I'm seeing a 3 year warrantee as well and not a lot of reason not to try it out.

 

[catalinajack]

Shallow well pumps smash out the water but are BRUTAL on amps

I got the smallest I could find
0.5hp
370 watts

But reality is when restricted by hose size that sucker is churning through 20+ amps on a 24v/240v setup.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Energy-...&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&redirect=mobile

Will be fine for everyday usage but I got it thinking I could run a brew through the still using this for cooling.
That requires 3 hours of water running

Back to using the 240v 30 litre/m magnetic drive pump that uses about 2 amps
Be good if they had a pressure switch on them, I wonder why none do?

Grundfos MQ booster pumps are killer pumps. The MQ3-35 3/4 HP pump draws 4 amps at 240VAC. Their one HP model draws 4.8 amps. A 20 amp draw? Now that would be brutal but four amps, not really considering the result. I installed a 110VAC pump about half-way through doing a one year cruise and absolutely love it. I wouldn't ever go back to any 12-volt pump. We anchor out a lot and running that pump off the batteries is not a big deal as the pump is used for only a few minutes total each day except 5-minute showers if we choose. For us,, a 4.8 amp AC draw translates into about 50 amps DC, with showers. That, in turn, yields a draw of about 30 amp hours from the battery.

For comparison, a Johnson Aquajet 5.2 pump consumes 150 watts (12.5 amps) so about 8 ah. Yes, for some folks a 10-20 ah difference would be significant. For us, it is not and the result is well worth the extra amp hours. Skip the showers or run the generator for a few minutes while showering and the difference pretty much disappears. If one has the luxury of a solar array, then it matters not a bit.

Every boat is different. Every use case is different. No one solution is "best". The Grundfos pump turns on and stays on soon after a tap is opened. It delivers strong, steady pressure and volume just like in a dirt house.

Just so readers know, I went through two new 12-volt pumps, variable and "regular", and was wholly dissatisfied with both before taking a chance on a Grundfos based on a contribution from someone on this forum.

 

[Streff]

This is the pump, Johnson Pumps 10-13406-107 Aqua Jet WPS 5.2 Water Pressure Pump, 12V, that I have on the boat tied to a 15gallon accumulator tank.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000C6HUZ/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

The recent reviews on Amazon are not stellar.

Having said that, It is not an expensive pump and it does well with the accumulator tank. but is noisy for sure, especially when running the cloths washer or dishwasher. I am talking with Depco pumps for alternative options. The washdowns have their own pumps.

Thank you all for the input and your experiences.

Streff

 

[Cigatoo]

Grundfos MQ booster pumps are killer pumps. The MQ3-35 3/4 HP pump draws 4 amps at 240VAC. Their one HP model draws 4.8 amps. A 20 amp draw? Now that would be brutal but four amps, not really considering the result. I installed a 110VAC pump about half-way through doing a one year cruise and absolutely love it. I wouldn't ever go back to any 12-volt pump. We anchor out a lot and running that pump off the batteries is not a big deal as the pump is used for only a few minutes total each day except 5-minute showers if we choose. For us,, a 4.8 amp AC draw translates into about 50 amps DC, with showers. That, in turn, yields a draw of about 30 amp hours from the battery.

For comparison, a Johnson Aquajet 5.2 pump consumes 150 watts (12.5 amps) so about 8 ah. Yes, for some folks a 10-20 ah difference would be significant. For us, it is not and the result is well worth the extra amp hours. Skip the showers or run the generator for a few minutes while showering and the difference pretty much disappears. If one has the luxury of a solar array, then it matters not a bit.

Every boat is different. Every use case is different. No one solution is "best". The Grundfos pump turns on and stays on soon after a tap is opened. It delivers strong, steady pressure and volume just like in a dirt house.

Just so readers know, I went through two new 12-volt pumps, variable and "regular", and was wholly dissatisfied with both before taking a chance on a Grundfos based on a contribution from someone on this forum.

I understand your logic. Sounds like a nice solution. My only thought is having to keep the inverter running on “standby” to keep the 110 volts available as needed. From memory my Mastervolt inverter consumes about 2.5 amps at idle........ I think.

 

[Simi 60]

Grundfos MQ booster pumps are killer pumps. The MQ3-35 3/4 HP pump draws 4 amps at 240VAC. Their one HP model draws 4.8 amps. A 20 amp draw? Now that would be brutal but four amps, not really considering the result..

That's 20 amps @ 24v so about 2 amps @ 240v
Half what the grundfos uses

The grundfos is a larger pump
It is also 8x more expensive

 

[catalinajack]

Yes, more expensive. Not a concern to me given what it delivers. It's draw is also not a concern to me but may be to others. Just another personal boat choice. No right or wrong answer.

That's 20 amps @ 24v so about 2 amps @ 240v
Half what the grundfos uses

The grundfos is a larger pump
It is also 8x more expensive

 

[catalinajack]

"That's 20 amps @ 24v so about 2 amps @ 240v" - yes, half as much but inconsequential given the very short time the pumps run.

That's 20 amps @ 24v so about 2 amps @ 240v
Half what the grundfos uses

The grundfos is a larger pump
It is also 8x more expensive

 

[macsail]

Late to the discussion, but my Shurflo Water Pump plus same backup ( 5900-0211 Smart Sensor Marine Pump 13.6v 5.7GPM ) both recently died in quick succession. They had a bad reputation.

My research took me to the RV world, and I bought a REMCO 55AQUAJET-ARV, 5.3 GPM, sensor shutoff at 56 psi. It was $185 and has good reviews, although 2 year mftr's warranty. I mention it because their tech recommends "no expansion tank". I've not seen pulsations with a couple of showers running. I thought it was a bit loud compared to my old pump.

https://painthose.com/remco-power-rv-aquajet-variable-demand-water-pump-5-3gpm-qa-55aquajet-arv/

 

[dmbraaten]

Expensive, but the best variable pump you can get. Mine works flawlessly.

https://www.gianneschi.net/en/content/ecoinox-ecojet-jet-ce

 

[BigTime]

I installed a Johnson Pump Flow Master 5.0 Gph Variable Flow Demand Pump 2 months ago. Don't like it at all. A pressure tank will be going back on as soon as I get around to it.

 

[lwarden]

I installed a Johnson Pump Flow Master 5.0 Gph Variable Flow Demand Pump 2 months ago. Don't like it at all. A pressure tank will be going back on as soon as I get around to it.

It appears that they suggest an accumulator with the Johnson VS pump. Every review I've seen when it was coupled with an accumulator showed folks were happy. Mine just showed up but it may be a while till I get a chance to install it.

 

[Comodave]

Years ago I put a variable speed pump in a previous boat. Didn’t last 2 weeks before I pulled it out. It didn’t have great flow and it made lots of loud noises. It would actually groan like it was straining. I went back to a regular pump and accumulator tank. Maybe they are better now but I don’t think I will try one. Too much work putting one in and possibly having to pull it back out.

 

[Simi 60]

Too much work putting one in and possibly having to pull it back out.

Nice thing about our set up is its literally a 5 minute job to swap out the pumps
A fair bit of thought was put into accessing systems on her thankfully.

Still using the $160 Vetus 24v at this stage, its gone past the 3 year mark and now out of warranty

https://www.arnoldsboatshop.com.au/products/vetus-fresh-water-pump

Funny thing about these is Vetus adds a $30 accumulator tank on a bracket and the price blows out to $1056

https://www.arnoldsboatshop.com.au/...ator-tank-set-with-adjustable-pressure-switch

 

[Comodave]

Yes, and you have a 60’ boat with a lot more room inside... You have to take into account the cost of the bracket.