Water heater discharging through relief valve

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Foster Nordic

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2017
Messages
39
Location
United States
Vessel Name
Lesser Light
Vessel Make
Nordic Tug 32
I have an interesting problem to lay out there for all of you.

My 6-gallon Kuuma (now Force 10) water heater seems to be discharging quite a bit of water through it's pressure-relief valve - this water is discharged via tubing into the bilge and then get pumped out with the bilge pumps. I'm talking gallons of water, not drips - over days.

Any suggestions - is this likely to be the valve itself?

Anybody had anything like this happen?
 
The valve is a safety. It releases either from excessive pressure or temperature. If it is releasing and then resealing, it would be important to understand why before attempting to solve the problem.

Has it always done this?
How old is the unit?
Have you changed anything else in the plumbing?
How hot does the hot water get?
Is there a heat loop off the engine?
Does it happen on shore power, engine heat loop, or both?

Ted
 
All good questions, thanks:

Has it always done this? - I don't know I just bought the boat and became aware of it after having it a couple months.


How old is the unit? - its a 2008 Nordic Tug and I think everything is original

Have you changed anything else in the plumbing? - nothing has changed

How hot does the hot water get? - water seems to get warm for showers but not what I'd call "hot"

Is there a heat loop off the engine? - yes there is a heat loop from the engine that passes through the water heater

Does it happen on shore power, engine heat loop, or both? - good question and I don't know the answer. I'm only aware of it at the dock....

thanks!
Don
 
Ok, round 2.

When you run a faucet, does the pump run almost all the time?
Do you have an expansion tank or pressure tank in the system?
Is the water pump original?
If it was replaced, do you know if it's one of the newer variable speed pumps that don't require a pressure tank?

Ted
 
My relief valve(on the boat HWS) suffers occasional incontinence,often resolved by just rotating the valve center. That I can rotate it might be a sign of trouble in itself, but it maybe worth a try.
 
To the OP,

Are you hooked to city water or pumping from your fresh water tank?
If hooked to city watet, how's the pressure?

Ted
 
I had a similar problem on my 25-year-old Raritan 12-gal water heater. Relief valve would "burp" water into bilge fairly often. Called Raritan and they sold me a new relief valve. Easy replacement. Problem solved. Your problem may be caused by excessive temperature or pressure, but as a last resort it is easy to just replace the valve.
Oldersalt
"Everything on your boat is broken. You just don't know it yet."
 
Ok, round 2.

When you run a faucet, does the pump run almost all the time? - yes I think it does

Do you have an expansion tank or pressure tank in the system? - I don't think there is an expansion tank anywhere

Is the water pump original? - yes water pump is original Jabasco pump from 2008

If it was replaced, do you know if it's one of the newer variable speed pumps that don't require a pressure tank?
 
The seat of the relief valve probably has some corrosion/dirt on it. You may clear it by manually lifting the stem off the seat (manually opening the relief valve). Or as others suggest, just buy a new one. They are cheaply made and have a short lifespan.
 
Ok, here is some information to help you solve the mystery.

When you heat water it expands (think of your engine, the coolant system, and the overflow tank). The water in you water heater expands when you heat it, and has to have some place to go. Without some place to go the pressure builds and goes out the safety valve (as it should ). For the age of your vessel, it most likely was built with a water pressure tank and a pump that turns on and off. The pressure tank has a bladder in it. On one side is the water and the other is air. The top of the tank has a tire stem valve to pressurize the bladder.

From your description of the pump running all the time when a faucet is open, I believe the pressure tank may have lost its air charge or the bladder may have failed. With no air space to compress, there is no place for the expanding hot water to go (except out the safety valve).

If it were my boat, I would look again for a pressure tank. Understand that they can be quite small. Saw one a couple of months ago on an American Tug 34 that was only about the size of a 1 quart soup can (it was black ).

BTW, as others have suggested, you can replace the safety valve. But if the expanding hot water has no place to go, it won't solve your problem.

Ted
 
OK - so if I find a pressure tank (even small one) - then what; replace the pressure tank?

And I do understand it's very easy to also replace the relief valve.

Thanks for all this thought - hugely helpful to get others insights!

Thanks all!
Don
 
OK - so if I find a pressure tank (even small one) - then what; replace the pressure tank?

And I do understand it's very easy to also replace the relief valve.

Thanks for all this thought - hugely helpful to get others insights!

Thanks all!
Don

If you find the pressure tank, I would first try to recharge it. This is accomplished by turning the pump off and opening a faucet until the water all but stops flowing. Leave the faucet open. Pump the tire valve on top of the tank up to the recommendation on the tank or about 25 psi (a bicycle tire pump is fine, but pressure is important. Too much defeats the purpose ). Close the faucet and turn the pump back on. When the pump stops running, open the faucet to a modest flow (fill a drinking glass in about 15 seconds). Then listen for the pump to cycle. Note how long it cycles on and off.

Ted
 
Look on HP side of the F/W pump for the expansion tank.
 
"Understand that they can be quite small."

Many of the older accumulator tanks do not have a schrader valve to pressurize or even a diaphragm.

The hassle is the air in the unit is eventually absorbed by the water .

All that is required is to take off the hose on the bottom of the cylinder , let the water drain and hook it up again.

This will restore the air inside.If it worked fine so far you are done.

An upgrade would be a tank that does have a diaphragm and air pressure inlet
 
I would replace the valve as a first attempt. A bit of debris will keep it from sealing.
This can be a home depot, etc valve.
 
Yesterday I had over 50 messages from this site and 30 spam.
I learn more from the post here.
 
Call AT. They can tell you where the pressure tank is located, if there is one. It should be large, about 2 gallons or so. Until this question is 100% answered, we are all whistling in the dark.

BTW, does this "leak" occur with heater electric switch off?
 
Call AT. They can tell you where the pressure tank is located, if there is one. It should be large, about 2 gallons or so. Until this question is 100% answered, we are all whistling in the dark.

BTW, does this "leak" occur with heater electric switch off?

OP would probably have better luck calling Nordic Tug. ;)

Ted
 
I would replace the valve as a first attempt. A bit of debris will keep it from sealing.
This can be a home depot, etc valve.

Maybe, but also maybe not. The relief valves release on pressure and temp, but the temp part I think is optional. Also, there are different length temp probes for different configuration tanks, and I think also different temp release points. I had to replace mine on my Grand Banks (don't recall the tank mfg) and had to order the replacement. As I recall, all the info is on the tag on the valve. Grab the part number and start googling to see what you have, and hence what you need. The temp ratings can be significant if you have engine-heated water which will get much hotter than electric heat. A household tank will never get over 150 or 160F, where a marine tank with engine heat can easily reach 190-200F, or whatever your engine temp is.
 
OC is likely correct. You must have an expansion tank in the hot water side of your system. If you don't, install one. If you do, it has lost pressure.
 
My overflow is also dripping into the bilge without the water heater being on. It's cold water dripping. Based upon this thread, I would assume it is probably the relief valve?
 
It is correctly called a Temperature, pressure relief valve. If it leaks, replace it. Chances are, the problem will go away. This is where I would start.

When I had my home hot water heater replaced, he installed a small expansion tank on top of the hot water heater. It is a new "code" requirement. Seems a bit redundant to the existing tank relief valve.
 
When I had my home hot water heater replaced, he installed a small expansion tank on top of the hot water heater. It is a new "code" requirement. Seems a bit redundant to the existing tank relief valve.
Many municipalities are going to a check valve between the city water supply and your home. Theoretically it isolates any contaminants in your system from migrating into the city's system. Without an expansion tank, when the water is heated and it expands, it has no place to go (except out the relief valve). The expansion tank gives the water a place to go and the relief valve only operates when the thermostat fails.

Ted
 
I tested my relief valve a few weeks ago by pushing the lever to see if water would come out - big mistake. Damn thing wouldn't seal after that, had to get it off of a 30-year-old water heater. Finally got it with a huge vice grips. If you can get it off, it's as simple as just screwing a new one on - problem solved.
 

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Many municipalities are going to a check valve between the city water supply and your home. Theoretically it isolates any contaminants in your system from migrating into the city's system. Without an expansion tank, when the water is heated and it expands, it has no place to go (except out the relief valve). The expansion tank gives the water a place to go and the relief valve only operates when the thermostat fails.

Ted


To expand on Ted's accurate reply.. Most codes now require a dual check valve, they allow NO backflow. Commercial applications may require a "reduced pressure principle" valve that has a chamber that opens to the atmosphere when the downstream pressure exceeds the inlet. By code, those valves require periodic testing by certified techs with certified testing gear.



The backflow device prevents any thermal expansion from backing out the supply line. The increased pressure can open the T&P valve, and absent that, can create enough pressure in the water heater to crush a flue passage, distend the bottom of the tank to the extent it becomes a "weeble", or in rare cases where an ignorant homeowner has plugged or modified the T&P valve, a runaway heater can flash its contents off into steam and quite literally become a bomb. Superheated water can flash into steam ~1025 times its volume in the flash of an eye. A T&P valve is nothing to trifle with.



The expansion tank absorbs the volume of expanded water. Worth noting is that the expansion tank is installed on the COLD piping. It's not rated for hot water, I've seen lots of improper installs, sometimes they work, doesn't make it right.



Our marine water heaters can benefit from an expansion tank, but the typical presence of a check valve on the inlet of the water heater complicates installation. Since the inlet check's function is to prevent a volume of heated water from backflowing into the cold supply (different function from the dual check), installing an expansion tank on the cold line is ineffective. The reaction is to install it on the hot line, which may work, but can often create more problems. With the potential for very hot water due to engine heating, the tank is subjected to conditions beyond its design parameters with resultant premature failure.
The simplest solution is to modify the check valve by creating a small bypass by drilling a very small hole (<1/16") in the flap, or filing a notch in the seat. This preserves the function of preventing the hot flow into the cold lines, while providing a path for the thermal expansion to find its way to the expansion tank or accumulator if the system is so fitted. If an accumulator is already present and large enough, modifying the check valve may provide enough reservoir to absorb the expansion without the need to add a supplemental additional expansion tank. Plus, the expansion tank can be installed anywhere in the cold piping where it's convenient.



If your T&P valve isn't leaking and you "test it", it will be leaking soon! If it ain't broke.... If a T&P valve is leaking, REPLACE IT with a new one having the same rating as the one removed. They are rated at a temperature, and pressure, with a btuh capacity. A replacement should be of equal rating, and not exceed the working pressure rating of the pressure vessel that it's protecting. The btuh rating must be equal or greater than the btu heating capacity of the water heater. It should NEVER be substituted with a pressure relief only valve. Because...The boiling point of water at 150 psi (typical pressure rating of a water heater) is 358F. If a runaway heater has no thermostatic limit, it can conceivably get to 150 psi and won't relieve. If for some reason that pressure is relieved, the boiling point suddenly plummets and the water at 350F flashes into steam. The water heater has become a bomb.

Not typically a huge concern in our marine applications, but worth knowing the WHY's when the subject of T&P comes up in discussion.
 
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If your T&P valve isn't leaking and you "test it", it will be leaking soon! If it ain't broke....

I agree; the reason I tested it is because it says right on it 'test annually'
 

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