Wagner helm replacement

[Nopistn]

So the steering system on my C&L 37 has been leaking at both helms since I bought it. I realize the Wagner stuff is out of production and would like to replace it with new seastar or other stuff. I'm thinking of replacing both the fly bridge and lower helm at the same time since they are both leaking. The actuator on The rudders seems to be newish.
There seem to be many different models of helm to choose from, can anyone help me figure out which I need?
My current steering seems to be 6.5 turns lock to lock and it's a Wagner 700 series. I attached picture.
Thanks.
-Philip

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. N. I had both my Wagner helms re-built a few years back due to leakage. Granted, I don't think it was much more than a few seals and o-rings but yours may be able to be re-done as well.

 

[Nopistn]

Well both of mine leak, are old, have a deal of play in the wheel, and will continue turning past the stop.
I'd rather get new ones than worry about how much it'll cost to rebuild these and how long they might last after that

 

[Xsbank]

Wagner is still made in North Vancouver, their products were bought out and they still make all sizes up to freighters. Can't think of the name, Google.

O rings, but its your money, go crazy.

 

[ancora]

I have the same set up on my boat and bought the Seal Rebuild Kit from Johnstown Distributors- Helm Seal Kit #HS-05, and did the job myself. I found the "how-to" instructions on-line at http:/www.local1259iaff.org/hydraulichelmrebuild.html. Profusely illustrated and made the job a snap.

 

[Lepke]

I have much older Wagner helms, all brass, probably about 1970. Kits still available. Rebuildable just about forever. Rebuild lasts 10-20 years. Forever if you don't mind the leaks.

 

[Nopistn]

Well mine both leak bad and have some play so I'm thinking it's more than seals.

 

[HopCar]

They were bought by Jastram.
Try Sterling Marine in Davie Florida. That's who I used to buy Wagner products from.

Marine Steering - Jastram Engineering Ltd. - Marine Hydraulic Cylinders, Steering Systems, Digital Ship Controls and Boat Motor Starters - Dealers: United States

Wagner helms are excellent. I wouldn't replace it.

 

[koliver]

Wagner was a North Vancouver Co. Went out of business several years ago. Bill Stewart bought a small warehouse full of Wagner stuff out of Seattle a few years later, his Co. is called Summer Equipment. Summer Equipment Ltd. | Vancouver, BC - Canadian Trade Index
He likely has your helm pumps in stock. And the rebuild kits.

 

[Lepke]

I know, you don't want to rebuild. Changing equipment is always more than you planned. Hire a hydraulics guy, have him rebuild and repair. Still be less than a change out.
Play could be air.
Current Wagner: Marine Steering - Wagner Engineering Ltd.

 

[Nopistn]

Well by play I mean steering wheel wobble, as in play in the actual shaft. It makes me think the internals are worn out beyond seals. There is rudder movement play as well.

 

[nmuir]

I have wagner too and have been lucky enought to rebuild via some of the contacts other posters have noted. Shame if you cannot as the wagner stuff seems pretty solid (albeit old).
It might be worth exploring if you can replace the pump with a complete rebuilt one or NOS (new old stock). A replacement/swap would be a rebolting and rebleeding process versus a whole redesign, rams would match, and so on.

 

[Keysdisease]

Capilano by Sea Star is the good stuff. The "turns lock to lock" is determined by the size of the actuator, larger diameter ram = more fluid to move. Nice feature is also they have adjustable ratio steering.
Good stuff, quality and commercial duty like Wagner

SeaStar Solutions

 

[FF]

"Well by play I mean steering wheel wobble, as in play in the actual shaft. It makes me think the internals are worn out beyond seals. There is rudder movement play as well."

No big deal, a bushing or two will need to be replaced , should not add much to the job cost.

Call down to one of the marinas that work on local commercial fish boats (not sport fish) and ask who does their hyd work.

Call the shop and ask if they have a parts source for your unit.

A rebuild should last as long as the steering did till now.

Should the system be un repairable the hyd guys will know how to select the next unit.

 

[ancora]

Here is the seal kit and the fixture I made out of PVC pipe to hold the pump while I did the rebuild.

 

[Lepke]

In my younger days I installed a lot of marine equipment. I found , if you're working with good equipment it's always better to rebuild than replace. If you're paying for labor, that means cheaper. A different helm, engine, etc., is going to mount differently, the lines may need to connect from another direction. Older, heavier equipment usually lasts longer than newer built equipment.
If someone is using a Wagner autopilot, parts (new, used, and repairs) are available here: Wagner Autopilot Parts & Accessories via Marine-Plus.Com  Merchant

 

[Nopistn]

"Well by play I mean steering wheel wobble, as in play in the actual shaft. It makes me think the internals are worn out beyond seals. There is rudder movement play as well."

No big deal, a bushing or two will need to be replaced , should not add much to the job cost.

Call down to one of the marinas that work on local commercial fish boats (not sport fish) and ask who does their hyd work.

Call the shop and ask if they have a parts source for your unit.

A rebuild should last as long as the steering did till now.

Should the system be un repairable the hyd guys will know how to select the next unit.

Yeah since I've never rebuilt one before I'd prefer an expert do it do I don't waste a bunch of parts and time. I definitely can remove this one and install a new or rebuilt unit though.
I guess I'll ask around locally and see wholl rebuild it.

 

[Vashon_Trawler]

I went ahead and had my Wagner 701 rebuilt. It serves in my boat's wheelhouse. They are solid and reliable. I would personally have it rebuilt/tested before replacing it with a new helm.

 

[Lepke]

I believe Wagner will rebuild any of their products.
+1-(604)-988-1111 ext 148
sales@wagnersteering.com
http://wagnerengineering.ca/

 

[tbtapper]

I just had my Wagner pump on the fly bridge rebuilt. Piece of cake to remove and ship.
Check out Florida Rigging and Hydraulics. Quick turn around and easy on the phone.
My cost including shipping was apx $350. That included a new shaft that was a little pricy but the unit is good to go and no more leaks

 

[Greatlaker221]

I rebuilt 2 Wagner pumps, they are tricky but it can be done DIY. I posted pics in my blog

Saving Tortuga: December 2014

 

[Vashon_Trawler]

I just had my Wagner pump on the fly bridge rebuilt. Piece of cake to remove and ship.
Check out Florida Rigging and Hydraulics. Quick turn around and easy on the phone.
My cost including shipping was apx $350. That included a new shaft that was a little pricy but the unit is good to go and no more leaks

That's who rebuilt mine! I highly recommend! Turn around was fast. I am installing it this weekend and looking forward to not having to wrap my help pump with a towel!