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03-27-2019, 11:37 AM
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#1
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Senior Member
City: Lafayette, CA
Vessel Name: Esprit
Vessel Model: 40' Tollycraft tricabin diesel
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 453
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Sumpless Shower Drain system
As we refit the '79 40' Tollycraft we recently purchased I went hunting for the shower sumps. To my surprise there were no 'sumps'. Rather there were Par pumps dedicated to pumping out the shower. I've not seen this before. At first I thought about retrofitting a sump since I'm not sure the old PAR is working. The surveyor did test the shower and the water disappeared...but where?
In any case the more I think about it, it seems to be have real advantages to avoid the smelly sump if possible. Do others have experience with this type of system?
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03-27-2019, 11:51 AM
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#2
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TF Site Team
City: California Delta
Vessel Name: FlyWright
Vessel Model: 1977 Marshall Californian 34 LRC
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 13,728
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No sump in my boat...just a drain to a (newly-installed) strainer to a pump to overboard. The pump is switched on/off with a button in the shower stall.
No smelly sump, no shower water in the bilge.
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03-27-2019, 12:27 PM
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#3
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TF Site Team
City: Westerly, RI
Vessel Name: N/A
Vessel Model: 1999 Mainship 350 Trawler
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,162
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I had a boat that was setup the same as described by flywright. It requires a self-priming, continuous duty pump that can be run dry. Rather than a float switch there is a manual switch near the shower.
Honestly, I like this design better than a sump. You don't need to clear clogs or clean like you do with the sumpbox. Plus, the float switch in the sump box tends to leave us standing in an inch of water while showering. The direct pump style does not.
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03-27-2019, 12:33 PM
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#4
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Moderator Emeritus
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 21,191
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The downside of not having a sump is if you have A/C you don’t have a place to drain the condensate. Other than that no problem with the direct pump system.
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03-27-2019, 12:46 PM
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#5
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Guru
City: Philadelphia
Vessel Name: Dreamers Holiday
Vessel Model: Mainship 390
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 572
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My first two boats did not have sumps and my friends 48' Pacemaker does not have sumps. They just pump straight overboard.
John
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03-27-2019, 12:49 PM
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#6
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Veteran Member
City: Atlantic coast
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 48
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 72
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+1 on the direct pump system.
Pump is a Jabsco Par Max 3 #31600-0092. Self priming and can run dry. Controlled by rocker switch next to shower.
I have the standard sump system for the HVAC condensate. Not so bad to maintain as condensate is a different animal than shower water.
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03-27-2019, 01:26 PM
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#7
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Guru
City: Stuart FL
Vessel Name: Lucky Lucky
Vessel Model: Pacific Mariner 65
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,760
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I have 2 Whale Gulper 220 pumps that do not require strainers, can run dry and eject directly overboard. In 3-years of live aboard use they have never clogged or failed. It pumps hair with ease. I wired one to a float switch and the other to an on/off switch. Both work flawlessly. Highly recommend.
__________________
Howard
Lucky Lucky
Stuart, FL
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03-28-2019, 06:27 AM
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#8
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Guru
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 22,553
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With guests aboard a timer , and an ON light outside the shower might be worthwhile.
Run dry is fine , bit seldom for hours or days.
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03-28-2019, 07:01 AM
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#9
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Veteran Member
City: Atlantic coast
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 48
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 72
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Yes on the red light on the switch.
Use of the pump is somewhat self enforcing. Sometimes I forget to turn it on. The shower filling up with water is telltale.
The pump is not too noisy but it does make an gurgling, slurping sound out of the drain that is hard to ignore.
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03-28-2019, 07:05 AM
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#10
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Senior Member
City: Plymouth
Vessel Name: Morgan le Fay
Vessel Model: KK 42
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 240
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Timer is a good idea. I feel like a flow switch with a delayed end would be perfect for this, just not sure anything like that exists... My family would absolutely forget any manual switch, those don't work.
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03-28-2019, 07:05 AM
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#11
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Guru
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in the Great Lakes
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,834
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I have a Whale pump connected to a sump with a float switch. In addition to the shower, 2 sinks, and 1 air conditioner, I added a drain line from my anchor locker. The original pump lasted about 14 years and then the diaphragm failed. I installed my spare pump and bought the wet side of the pump (housing, valves, hose barbs, and diaphragm) for $20. Can't say enough good things about those Whale pumps. I've also replaced the float switch once.
For me, an automatic shower sump is an absolute must. A dry anchor locker that doesn't drain into the bilge is wonderful also.
Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
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03-28-2019, 08:56 AM
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#12
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Senior Member
City: MN and FL
Vessel Name: Serendipitous
Vessel Model: Mainship 390, Bayliner 3258, Bayliner 4788
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 285
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When you need a shower sump (or when you don't)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowmo
As we refit the '79 40' Tollycraft we recently purchased I went hunting for the shower sumps. To my surprise there were no 'sumps'. Rather there were Par pumps dedicated to pumping out the shower. I've not seen this before. At first I thought about retrofitting a sump since I'm not sure the old PAR is working. The surveyor did test the shower and the water disappeared...but where?
In any case the more I think about it, it seems to be have real advantages to avoid the smelly sump if possible. Do others have experience with this type of system?
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You will see a 'sumpless' shower drain setup like yours in any boat where the shower drain is so close to the bottom of the hull that there isn't enough room for a gravity-drain into a sump box. Our Bayliner 4788 has two showers, one with a sump, one sumpless.
The floor of the aft shower is almost right at the bottom of the hull, so it is sumpless, because it has to be. The floor of the forward shower is about 14" off the hull bottom, so there is plenty of room for gravity to move the water into a sump box.
Does your Tollycraft have air conditioning? If yes, you should check to see where the condensate is draining. A/C condensate should be going overboard, never into the bilge. This means that it should be draining into a sump-box or routed to an overboard drain.
ABYC did not introduce the A/C condensate draining requirements until 2003, but some boat manufacturers implemented it before then. That said, I have seen many boats (including our 4788) where condensate was going into the bilge. Very bad, on many levels...
__________________
RiverGuy~~
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03-28-2019, 09:57 AM
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#13
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Guru
City: Seattle, WA
Vessel Name: Pau Hana
Vessel Model: 1989 PT52 Overseas Yachtfisher
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,676
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Here's your huckleberry. automatic and directly overboard.
http://www.whalepumps.com/Marine/pro...lyID=Gulley-IC
__________________
Peter- Marine Insurance Guru at Novamar Insurance Group (206-350-5051) & tuna fishing addict!
1989 52' PT Overseas yachtfisher
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03-28-2019, 11:06 AM
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#14
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Guru
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,021
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When we bought our Nova 18 years ago, I discovered that the shower sump pump was located under the house batteries, so I pulled it out, junked it, and piped the shower water directly into the engine room sump. Since the boat has conventional shaft packing, the water in the sump does not sit there for long, before being pumped over the side by the bilge pump.
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03-29-2019, 07:35 AM
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#15
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Guru
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 22,553
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" Since the boat has conventional shaft packing, the water in the sump does not sit there for long, before being pumped over the side by the bilge pump."
This is certainly a most unique reason for not installing Duramax or GFO packing!!!
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04-15-2019, 09:15 PM
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#16
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Guru
City: Seattle
Vessel Name: Aruna
Vessel Model: Kristen Yachts 50 Pilot House
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 541
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pau Hana
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I recently removed a shower box and installed one of these and love it. I bought the shower sump version which has an included shower drain replacement and sensor. Works perfectly.
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