Seacocks - opinions?

[SlowGypsy]

Looking for input from those with experience re-building or replacing 33 year old seacocks. You'll notice these have been leaking for a while. Ignoring the overlapping clamps, does this look like a simple dismantle/repair/clean type of job, or would it be better to just replace them?

 

[DHeckrotte]

The old style tapered plug seacocks are beloved by many and are nearly forever serviceable. Clean 'em, lap 'em, keep them lubricated. It's possible that prolonged lack of service will leave the plug and bore so scored that it would be difficult to get it true enough.

I think most of us are seduced by the never-needs-service ball-type, and too many of us are content with the ball valve threaded onto a through-hull fitting (instead of the valve integral with a bolted flange). (I've replaced 10 on two boats with the flanged type but now own a boat with at least 6 more of the wrong type.)

 

[O C Diver]

I would replace them, but that's just how I roll on critical emergency equipment. Keep in mind, you won't know if it's repairable until after you take it apart.

Ted

 

[Bruce B]

I would replace them, but that's just how I roll on critical emergency equipment. Keep in mind, you won't know if it's repairable until after you take it apart.

Ted

What Ted said!
I'd start with new...
Bruce

 

[SlowGypsy]

Thanks for the useful input!
Yes, I figure I would have to take 'em apart to know what I've got, but in this case, they are on a boat I am looking at.
If anyone can tell the brand by just looking at the photo, then I could research that model and get an idea of what might be involved.
I am OK with buying new ones, unless someone jumps in with: "Wow! Those are XYZ's! They just don't make them like that anymore! Get a service kit and fix 'em!"
I am well aware of the fact that much of what we can get now, is crap compared to what they used to put on our boats.

 

[O C Diver]

Quality seacocks are still available from Groco and others.

Ted

 

[HopCar]

Going back many years so the memory may be wrong but I think they were made by Wilcox Crittenden. Wilcox made two grades of seacock. These were the less expensive ones with cast in tail pieces. If I'm correct, there will be a stylized WC cast into it.

On second thought they may be Spartan. The handles don't look right for Wilcox.

I don't like the way those are mounted. The backing plates should be bigger.

Go to the Groco Website and you will find good installation instructions. All of the Groco products are good. I recommend you use their fiberglass backing blocks and their flanged adapter with one of their Ball valves.
My old company would be a good place to buy what you need.
Seacocks by Groco and Apollo Conbraco

 

[tadhana]

Those seacocks have a long history in the marine industry. If you take out the SS screw (one each side), you will find that you can screw in a zerk fitting and grease the seacock.They are easily serviced on land but can also be greased in the water.
1)Spray the nuts with WD 40 or CRC 656, and wait a day or three
2) insert zerk fittings.
3) Loosen lock nut. Loosen flange nut so the lever turns easily (if boat is in the water some water will start to come in, but it is manageable. it looks worse that it is!)
4) pump grease into the zerk fittings and open and close the valve to work it in, until grease comes out the ends of the seacock barrel. Trailer wheel bearing grease or white lithium grease seem to work well.
5) tighten the flange nut till water stops coming in. move the handle several times and tighten a littl more if it tarted to leak. Then tighten the lock nut.
6) remove the zerk fitting and replace with bronze or SS blog/bolt. DO NOT leave the zerk fitting in the seacock. They are steel and will rust away.

eventually the tapered barrel or the seacock itself will get out of round and leak. If this happens you can easil lap the mating surfaces with valve compound and the two surfaces will mate once again.

 

[SlowGypsy]

Thanks Hopcar! - I well remember Wilcox Crittendon quality!
If I were to buy this boat, I would first dismantle and inspect. If they need replacing, I fully agree with the suggestions you made, and I would probably go with flanged Groco's and large base plates.
(I have been spoiled with my current setup, with steel standpipes welded to the hull, and all seacocks T'd off of the standpipes. I can completely remove any seacock for servicing, without any water coming in!)
It will take a while to get used to the way they do things on fibreglass boats!

 

[tadhana]

If you decide to replace them, go with the Marelon glass filled Nylon seacocks. Forespar is one MFR. They are relatively inexpensive, and meet all the marine standards for strength, and you never have to worry about corrosion.

 

[SlowGypsy]

Thanks, tadhana!
Clear servicing instructions, which I will follow if these are indeed tapered seacocks. (And, if I get the boat!)

 

[sdowney717]

They are green so weeping salt water a little, maybe invisibly.
If they are not leaking like cracked, warped, scored, I would take them apart and soak in white vinegar and steel brush them clean.
Give them a close look and likely use them.
The grease plug sounds like a good thing to do.
Bronze lasts a real long long time .

I have two old Groco rubber plug seacocks, and like them a lot. Been totally trouble free on the boat since 1970.

 

[Nomad Willy]

I'm supprised FF has'nt ben along as he's keen on the old tapered types.

 

[DavidM]

I too am keen on these tapered plug seacocks. Here is a good photo article on servicing them: Servicing Tapered Cone Seacocks Photo Gallery by Compass Marine How To at pbase.com

A $5.00 can of lapping compound and some elbow grease can make them good as new.

David

 

[Andy G]

FWIW, I have just replaced all eight of my sea cocks. The boat is 35 years old.

I did toy with the idea of rebuilding them, however a mate in the insurance game advised me that if there was an issue of a failure causing damage the insurance company probably would not pay up.

The rational was when a part is that old which you service yourself, and it subsequently fails, the insurance company will probably take the view that you firstly were not qualified to make the assessment of the seaworthiness of the seacock in the first place, and secondly you were not qualified to do the rebuild.

If you do rebuild the original seacocks I personally would let a shipwright do the job, just to cover any potential insurance issues.

 

[SoWhat]

I too am keen on these tapered plug seacocks. Here is a good photo article on servicing them: Servicing Tapered Cone Seacocks Photo Gallery by Compass Marine How To at pbase.com

They should last forever as long as they are opened and closed periodically. I had one that was frozen. Took a lot of time to get it apart but instructions at Compass Maine were excellent.

 

[angus99]

FWIW, I have just replaced all eight of my sea cocks. The boat is 35 years old.

I did toy with the idea of rebuilding them, however a mate in the insurance game advised me that if there was an issue of a failure causing damage the insurance company probably would not pay up.

The rational was when a part is that old which you service yourself, and it subsequently fails, the insurance company will probably take the view that you firstly were not qualified to make the assessment of the seaworthiness of the seacock in the first place, and secondly you were not qualified to do the rebuild.

If you do rebuild the original seacocks I personally would let a shipwright do the job, just to cover any potential insurance issues.

Wow, if doing my own work on aging boat equipment can be the rationale for denying an insurance claim, I might as well cancel my policy. I'd likely be screwed no matter what goes wrong.

(Andy, I replaced all of my seacocks as well.)

 

[Lepke]

Those seacocks have a long history in the marine industry. If you take out the SS screw (one each side), you will find that you can screw in a zerk fitting and grease the seacock.They are easily serviced on land but can also be greased in the water.

Exactly - I have mostly 70 year old similar. I keep a grease gun with waterproof grease just for them and my old style shaft seals. The grease keeps them cleaner and easy turning. Also the grease helps stop leaks. Unless you're in a battleship, your thru hulls are only a few feet below the water and the pressure isn't great so the grease eliminates the little leaks.

 

[Pack Mule]

I'm supprised FF has'nt ben along as he's keen on the old tapered types.

He will be on this as soon as he's up and going and I'm sure it will be early . He probably has some just like those .

 

[FF]

Unlike fine bronze sea cocks my computers are down,so I am reduced to a Fire with afinger pokekeyboard.

The bronze will last till someones electric kills them.

If there bronze color ,,not pink,,you can re lap them for another few decades of service.

Once theSS ball valves seize there scrap and if forced may show one whythere supposed to be bolted thru with 3/8 bronze bolts.

 

[SlowGypsy]

Thanks, FF, ................ Knew we could count on you!

 

[psneeld]

If that were entirely true about self repair, look what kind of boat drivers they insure.

Who in their right mind would take that risk either....

 

[koliver]

Wow, if doing my own work on aging boat equipment can be the rationale for denying an insurance claim, I might as well cancel my policy. I'd likely be screwed no matter what goes wrong.

(Andy, I replaced all of my seacocks as well.)

Don't cancel just yet.
It depends lots on what the adjuster says. If he can see that your work is up to a reasonable standard on the rest of the boat, that standard is what he will attribute to your work on any failed item. OTOH, if you clearly have no clue, he will attribute that standard to the failed item and you lose.

 

[FF]

The other advantage to tapered seacocks is iif it does size up.

Loosten the but opposite the handle and tap with something.

The valve can now be moved easily and thenut tightened.

 

[Steve DAntonio]

Looking for input from those with experience re-building or replacing 33 year old seacocks. You'll notice these have been leaking for a while. Ignoring the overlapping clamps, does this look like a simple dismantle/repair/clean type of job, or would it be better to just replace them?

I'd like to say I've seen just about every seacock design out there, however, these are new to me. While the tapered cone arrangement is almost infinitely rebuild-able (they can be lapped using valve grinding compound, I've done this on 40 year old Perko seacocks, now long gone from the market place) the oblong base is peculiar, and illogical from a design perspective as it offers virtually no load distributing support from two directions. The backing blocks being the same size as the seacock base also make no sense what so ever, they offer no load distribution, and in fact increase leverage, which is undesirable.

The stainless steel screw almost certainly isn't original, stainless screws are commonly made from 18-8 alloy, which is highly prone to crevice corrosion, this screw should be bronze (not brass).

I'd opt for replacements that carry ABYC compliance. These would be UL Marine Sea Valve listed, and would be marked as such. These are available from Groco (I prefer the BV series), Apollo and Forespar. Backing blocks should be larger than the seacock base.

For more on seacock installation see http://stevedmarineconsulting.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Seacocks114_05.pdf This is written for the marine industry, so a bit more technical.

For a boat owner's approach see What's Below Your Waterline? - Seaworthy Magazine - BoatUS

 

[SlowGypsy]

A big thank you to Steve, and all who contributed to this thread!
Even if I do not buy this particular boat, the information I have picked up will be invaluable in helping me to maintain the seacocks on whatever vessel I do get.
Thank you!