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02-09-2018, 05:41 PM
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#21
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Guru
City: Pender Harbour, BC
Vessel Name: Gwaii Haanas
Vessel Model: Custom Aluminum 52
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,791
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All good stuff you guys, I am making some plans to change the system and Peggy is going to help out as well; so far I am planning PVC, double vents and mounting the pump uphill from the tank. I am not certain how I can marry PVC to a through-hull or to the hose barb on the toilet but there is nothing that a BFH and some glue can't fix. I may have to make a frame to support the pipe too. I still haven't chosen a pump but I'm leaning towards the Johnson pump, they have always made good salt water pumps so we'll see. Also, a generic tank has very small vents, I want 1.5 times 2 and most are 5/8th, only one. They do have above-tank pickups, which is a step forward.
__________________
Don't believe everything that you think.
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02-10-2018, 03:42 PM
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#22
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Grand Vizier
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xsbank
Oberdorfer doesn't appear to make diaphragm pumps any more, Sealand is now Dometic with a price increase, Jabsco I don't trust any more, has anyone tried the Johnson 32 pump? That looks to be a reasonable design and not too stupid a price, made in Sweden (and them Swedes sure know their poop!).
Stupidly, there is no way to test whether my old pump is permeated or worn out without dismantling it and rebuilding it and trying it in the system.
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I had Whale Gulper diaphragm pumps, but replaced them with a single 120 vac trash pump that appears to be completely bullet proof. If 120 vac is available, I can get you the model number.
On the hoses, if you wrap them with Petro Tape, you will have no odor permeating them, and could fix the ones you have with the same process.
__________________
"Dad always thought laughter was the best medicine, which I guess is why several of us died of tuberculosis." - Jack Handey
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02-10-2018, 04:36 PM
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#23
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Guru
City: East Coast
Vessel Name: M/V Maerin (Sold)
Vessel Model: Solo 4303
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 886
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xsbank
I am not certain how I can marry PVC to a through-hull or to the hose barb on the toilet but there is nothing that a BFH and some glue can't fix.
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A section of hose would provide the flexibility needed to make a connection and offer some flex in the transition. It also provides a means to service stuff. To transition from hose to thread or socket weld (glue) joint, the smooth SeaLand adapters are great. They're smooth inside to minimize any obstruction or snag points, and they can be glued to a standard 1-1/2 PVC-DWV fitting. Use primer on the glue joints, it'll give a stronger joint, you don't have to use the purple stuff, it's a mess- use clear. When mating hose to the smooth adapter, use regular silicone caulk as a lubricant. It makes the hose much easier to assemble, seals when cured, and if you need to get it apart at some point in the future, it will break free from the PVC and come apart MUCH easier than if you use soap as a lube.
For fittings in the PVC, use LONG TURN PVC/DWV 90 deg ells. You may not find them at the box stores, but a plumbing supply house will have them. They improve flow and minimize clog potential, plus you can rod them if it's ever needed, however unlikely. Always chamfer the pipe inside and out. No burrs! As for supporting PVC, cable tie bases work great with HD zip/cable ties. McMaster has them, make sure to get the big ones. The PVC is not as prone to movement as you'd think. Support it at direction changes and every couple feet. PVC for waste lines is cheap, lasts forever. Not too flexible, unfortunately! But you can heat it and form it. It'll never permeate!
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02-10-2018, 07:10 PM
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#24
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Guru
City: Pender Harbour, BC
Vessel Name: Gwaii Haanas
Vessel Model: Custom Aluminum 52
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,791
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Good info Maerin, pretty much what I suspected as I've never attempted to use PVC except under a sink. Thanks everyone for your input.
__________________
Don't believe everything that you think.
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02-10-2018, 07:41 PM
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#25
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Guru
City: Aventura FL
Vessel Name: Kinja
Vessel Model: American Tug 34 #116 2008
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 10,595
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My 5 year hoses are 10 years old.
Hunt around for the source of the smell before you condemn the hoses or pumps
__________________
Two days out the hospital after a week in the hospital because of a significant heart attack.
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02-11-2018, 06:36 AM
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#26
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Guru
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 22,553
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"and mounting the pump uphill from the tank."
This will require the pump to be able to pull the waste into it each time.
A bit of "stuff" in a check valve and you will be in the R&R game again.
A constantly full waste pump never suffers this dry out and usually has a longer life.
All these pumps can get "stuck" a bit at starting so the 120V units seem to last longer than the 12v jobs.
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02-11-2018, 06:43 AM
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#27
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Guru
City: Vermont
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 10,093
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FF
"and mounting the pump uphill from the tank."
This will require the pump to be able to pull the waste into it each time.
A bit of "stuff" in a check valve and you will be in the R&R game again.
A constantly full waste pump never suffers this dry out and usually has a longer life.
All these pumps can get "stuck" a bit at starting so the 120V units seem to last longer than the 12v jobs.
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This is why most pumps specifically intended for waste pump out are diaphragm pumps. They are self priming, have good left, and don't tend to jam. Every 3-5 years you will need to replace the duckbill valves, and will thank everyone around you that the pump is not flooded with poop when its time to do that job.
__________________
MVTanglewood.com
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02-11-2018, 10:02 AM
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#28
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Grand Vizier
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedtree
This is why most pumps specifically intended for waste pump out are diaphragm pumps. They are self priming, have good left, and don't tend to jam. Every 3-5 years you will need to replace the duckbill valves, and will thank everyone around you that the pump is not flooded with poop when its time to do that job.
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The trash pump I installed has no maintenance parts to replace. I plumbed a permanent supply of water to the pump for priming and rinsing after pump out. Works great.
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02-11-2018, 10:33 AM
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#29
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Guru
City: Wilmington, NC
Vessel Name: DreamQuest
Vessel Model: Prairie 36
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 550
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Curious as to why you don't want to use a macerator pump as a pump out for your holding tank. I'm installing a new holding tank on my Prairie 36 and plan to use a macerator type as the pump out. I also have a macerator on the toilet but don't see the harm in using a second one for the tank. Am I missing something?
BTW, I'm also using PVC pipe where ever I can. Especially in areas where I expect the sewage to lay in the pipe. It takes more time to cut and glue, but I think worth it in the long run.
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02-11-2018, 10:41 AM
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#30
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Grand Vizier
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FOG
Curious as to why you don't want to use a macerator pump as a pump out for your holding tank. I'm installing a new holding tank on my Prairie 36 and plan to use a macerator type as the pump out. I also have a macerator on the toilet but don't see the harm in using a second one for the tank. Am I missing something?
BTW, I'm also using PVC pipe where ever I can. Especially in areas where I expect the sewage to lay in the pipe. It takes more time to cut and glue, but I think worth it in the long run.
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Check and see what the max runtime is for a macerator pump. It might not be long enough to empty the tank.
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02-11-2018, 11:08 AM
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#31
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Guru
City: Vermont
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 10,093
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delfin
The trash pump I installed has no maintenance parts to replace. I plumbed a permanent supply of water to the pump for priming and rinsing after pump out. Works great.
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I saw that fresh water line in your picture. Good idea. Did you do anything special to prevent back contamination into your water, or do you just rely on proper operation? I'll bet that trash pump empties the tank quickly :-)
__________________
MVTanglewood.com
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02-11-2018, 11:31 AM
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#32
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Grand Vizier
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedtree
I saw that fresh water line in your picture. Good idea. Did you do anything special to prevent back contamination into your water, or do you just rely on proper operation? I'll bet that trash pump empties the tank quickly :-)
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I rely on proper operation, always flushing the pump once the tank is empty. If I ever sell her, I'd put double check valves on the fresh water supply.
And yes, at 30-40 gpm it's a fast empty. Speed comes in handy because I plumbed this so I can empty the black water, then pump the gray water into the black water tank, then empty it again. Probably pointless, but it makes me feel better.
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02-11-2018, 11:42 AM
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#33
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Guru
City: Pender Harbour, BC
Vessel Name: Gwaii Haanas
Vessel Model: Custom Aluminum 52
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,791
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Feeling better is important when discussing poop...just saying
__________________
Don't believe everything that you think.
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02-11-2018, 11:48 AM
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#34
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Enigma
City: Slicker?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,566
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TMI !!!!
__________________
RTF
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02-11-2018, 03:47 PM
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#35
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Guru
City: Wilmington, NC
Vessel Name: DreamQuest
Vessel Model: Prairie 36
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 550
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delfin
Check and see what the max runtime is for a macerator pump. It might not be long enough to empty the tank.
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Good point. Did some research and it looks like it won't be an issue for my 45 gallon holding tank.
Any other reasons for not using a macerator pump to empty a holding tank that has a macerator pump on the toilet?
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02-11-2018, 04:56 PM
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#36
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Grand Vizier
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FOG
Good point. Did some research and it looks like it won't be an issue for my 45 gallon holding tank.
Any other reasons for not using a macerator pump to empty a holding tank that has a macerator pump on the toilet?
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I can't think of one. They are noisy. I installed one on our sailboat to act as a garbage disposal but also to empty the sink, whose bottom was just below the water line when the boat was heavily laden. Worked for years.
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02-11-2018, 05:01 PM
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#37
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TF Site Team
City: Jacksonville
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FOG
Curious as to why you don't want to use a macerator pump as a pump out for your holding tank. I'm installing a new holding tank on my Prairie 36 and plan to use a macerator type as the pump out...
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I have changed more than my share of macerator pumps on heads used for pump outs. Most can’t run dry and are prone to clogs. My classic was when we had our 34 Mainship, the pump wouldn’t pump out the holding tank. We had guests and she wore braces. Those little rubber bands. I killed 2 pumps in a week.
If you’re installing a new tank, take a look at the T Series Sealand/Dometic pumps. For less than $300, it can run dry, self priming and will pretty much pump anything that has already made it to the tank.
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02-11-2018, 07:12 PM
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#38
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Grand Vizier
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry M
I have changed more than my share of macerator pumps on heads used for pump outs. Most can’t run dry and are prone to clogs. My classic was when we had our 34 Mainship, the pump wouldn’t pump out the holding tank. We had guests and she wore braces. Those little rubber bands. I killed 2 pumps in a week.
If you’re installing a new tank, take a look at the T Series Sealand/Dometic pumps. For less than $300, it can run dry, self priming and will pretty much pump anything that has already made it to the tank.
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That's nothing. My granddaughter, at around age 5 had a little accident. Solution? Flush her panties down the Tecma.
__________________
"Dad always thought laughter was the best medicine, which I guess is why several of us died of tuberculosis." - Jack Handey
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02-11-2018, 08:03 PM
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#39
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Guru
City: Ashland, MA
Vessel Model: 1990 Silverton 40 aftcabin
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,208
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I am another fan of Sealand! Once I forgot turning mine off and it ran continuously for over a week. And as for operating life, I installed mine almost ten years ago and never ever had a problem with it. GREAT PUMP!
Final comment (I hope) is I am a strong believer of schedule 40 PVC never stink pipe. Enough said on that because there are strong opinions here by those that prefer hose.
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02-12-2018, 06:12 AM
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#40
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Guru
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 22,553
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"Every 3-5 years you will need to replace the duckbill valves"
The hassle with duck bill valves is even a tiny hunk of waste can keep it from sealing.
No seal, no lift , no pumping , unless the pump is already primed with waste it must be able to lift.
An RV gated waste valve makes R&R a pump a minor effort , tho a pail under is still required.
The only hope for diaphram pumps is to flush them a few times after each discharge , so the duck bill is hospital clean if allowed to dry out.
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