|
|
09-17-2018, 08:04 PM
|
#1
|
Senior Member
City: FT.Pierce, Fl
Vessel Name: Tuna Talk
Vessel Model: CC Tournament 30
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 177
|
Pros & Cons of A/C Systems
I'll be looking for an A/C system for a 2 stateroom, 2 head 45' pilothouse trawler. I'm needing some help deciding if a split gas system or chilled water system is best. What are the advantages of one over the other?
|
|
|
09-17-2018, 10:24 PM
|
#2
|
Guru
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in the Great Lakes
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,834
|
It is my understanding that all in one units are the most energy efficient of the raw water cooled AC/ heat systems. Split units are a close second. Chilled water units are a distant third. This is with regard to watts of power consumed versus BTUs of cooling realized.
If you're installing AC for the first time or replacing a split or all in one system, routing the heavily insulated chill water lines can become space challenging.
When I did my refit on my 45' trawler, I briefly considered chill water units to replace my 3 all in one units. In addition to being more expensive and more difficult with regard to running the chill water lines, there was a significant likelyhood that I would be undersized on the generator as a result of the required increased capacity do to lower efficiency.
Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
|
|
|
09-17-2018, 10:39 PM
|
#3
|
Moderator Emeritus
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 21,185
|
I have one self-contained unit and one split unit. When the split unit dies I will be replacing it with a self-contained unit to save space.
|
|
|
09-18-2018, 01:42 PM
|
#4
|
Guru
City: Brookline, NH
Vessel Name: Shalloway
Vessel Model: Defever 44, twin Perkins
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,260
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comodave
I have one self-contained unit and one split unit. When the split unit dies I will be replacing it with a self-contained unit to save space.
|
The self contained units have gotten better and better and more compact. Much easier to install and deal with than a split unit. If one of my splits fails I will replace with a self contained unit.
Ken
|
|
|
09-18-2018, 04:25 PM
|
#5
|
Guru
City: Houma, Louisiana
Vessel Name: M/V LUNASEA
Vessel Model: 45ft Bluewater Coastal
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 529
|
Just added a self contained unit for the bedroom. Very quiet, uses very little power and easy to install.
|
|
|
09-18-2018, 05:07 PM
|
#6
|
Senior Member
City: Brisbane
Vessel Name: Beluga
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 46eu 2006 hull#289
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 223
|
I will put in a vote for the alternative.
My boat has Marineairr chilled water A/C system (which I think is now a Dometic Group company?).
In Brisbane, Australia, it gets pretty humid and warm at the peak of our summer. Compared with similar GB 46s and GB 42s I have been on that have split gas systems (I believe the brand is called Cruiseair?), my boat is noticeably cooler at any given time of the day and I never have to run my a/c system below 23 degrees celsius (73.4 farenheight) whereas the cruiseair equipped boats are running at 19 degrees and they are still warmer.
Of course there are lots of variable to this and I am not an engineer - maybe my boat just has a bigger system? However my own experience is that chilled water systems perform better in heavy heat/humidity load situations.
I am told that chilled water systems (a) cost more to buy (b) have larger hoses and so forth to install (c) are usually used on larger boats. In marketing material for new boats, installation of chilled water a/c is often highlighted as a 'special extra' or a reason to choose that boat.
Just my experience.
Hamish.
|
|
|
09-18-2018, 05:39 PM
|
#7
|
Guru
City: Between Oregon and Alaska
Vessel Name: Charlie Harper
Vessel Model: Wheeler Shipyard 83'
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,023
|
If you have hydronic heat, you can use the same plumbing for chilled water AC if the plumbing is insulated. I don't have AC in my current boat, but set up the hydronic with forced air units instead of radiators so it would be ready for AC.
|
|
|
09-18-2018, 06:56 PM
|
#8
|
Guru
City: Miami
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 800
|
Pros & Cons of A/C Systems
It’s tough to justify a chiller system unless you have complete access to the boat during construction. Though you can eliminate several through hulls on a larger system, you do need to add an additional circ pump and a big set of loop lines which will need to be properly insulated( extra difficult to find leaks under the insulation).The new self contained units are almost plug and play and relatively cheap. Our current boat has two 3 ton chillers, but only one is needed to cool the boat. The two circ pumps pull about 2 amps each at max and the compressor pulls 15 at full locked rotor. We can cool or heat the whole boat with our 6 kw genset. We tend to relocate seasonally so that we need neither at anchor, but we do like to run a climate controlled ship when we are underway. If you are going spend most of your time on the yellow cord in a marina I’d just go with the cheapest solution and oversize your intake through hulls and hoses.
__________________
Via iOS.
|
|
|
09-18-2018, 08:09 PM
|
#9
|
Senior Member
City: FT.Pierce, Fl
Vessel Name: Tuna Talk
Vessel Model: CC Tournament 30
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 177
|
More votes for the self contained units than I expected. I wasn't even going to consider them due to the higher noise levels than the other two alternatives. Can anyone confirm or deny the noise level concern?
|
|
|
09-18-2018, 08:15 PM
|
#10
|
Guru
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,147
|
The compressors are so quiet, it's the fans and airflow you hear.
The same from air handlers from splits or chilled water.
|
|
|
09-18-2018, 08:32 PM
|
#11
|
Moderator Emeritus
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 21,185
|
I have one of each and do not notice any difference in noise.
|
|
|
09-18-2018, 09:36 PM
|
#12
|
Guru
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in the Great Lakes
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,834
|
Regarding noise, there is a wear in period on many things with electric motors. Some actually get quieter after a wear in period. The Webasto AC units I have are nice, but I wouldn't call them quiet when I installed them. After a year of modest use, they are significantly quieter. You have to listen carefully to hear the compressor running.
Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
|
|
|
09-18-2018, 11:36 PM
|
#13
|
Senior Member
City: Pensacola, FL
Vessel Name: Rain Dog
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 42 Classic
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 184
|
My all-in-one in my salon is very loud. I was considering a split system mostly for noise reduction. I am surprised by the answers in this thread too. Seems like moving the compressor from under the settee to the engine room would have to be quieter.
My units are very old marine air units. Are the new unit substantially quieter than the old units?
|
|
|
09-19-2018, 12:05 AM
|
#14
|
Moderator Emeritus
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 21,185
|
We really don’t hear the compressor noise much, mostly is the fan and air noise. Not that my units are really new but the noise isn’t objectionable.
|
|
|
09-19-2018, 01:38 AM
|
#15
|
Guru
City: Sydney
Vessel Name: Sojourn
Vessel Model: Integrity 386
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 13,329
|
What is meant by an "all in one" a/c? A window rattler, a rooftop RV unit,maybe even a portable one which pumps air out a tube via a window. I`m guessing it`s more sophisticated, but what is it?
__________________
BruceK
2005 Integrity 386 "Sojourn"
Sydney Australia
|
|
|
09-19-2018, 05:24 AM
|
#16
|
Guru
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 22,553
|
IF an excellent modern RV rooftop unit were too small, I would look at a mini split style unit.
These have none of the losses of the old split units that require large duct work for feed and return .And no water lines and pumps to operate.
The slow down of the compressor cuts electric consumption , useful at a pay for juice power pole , or in keeping noisemaker loads reduced
|
|
|
09-19-2018, 05:39 AM
|
#17
|
Guru
City: Solomons, MD
Vessel Name: Branwen
Vessel Model: Hatteras 48 LRC
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 645
|
Quote:
What is meant by an "all in one" a/c?
|
Also commonly called "self contained," the units have all of the air conditioning components in one package, including an air handler/cooler/blower. The split systems cool the coolant medium at one location (the engine room?) and then pipe it to an air handler that uses the cooled medium to cool air that it collects, blows through a transfer device, and then returns it to the area to be cooled. I assume they have their own water pumps for cooling (not sure), and they'll still exhaust condensate that you'll have to get rid of. (The description based on my rudimentary understanding of how these things work.)
But if you google "marine air self contained" you'll get many examples.
|
|
|
09-19-2018, 05:49 AM
|
#18
|
Guru
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,147
|
Another benefit of all in one units.......
You might be able to pull them out with minimal effort and take them to a local AC shop for repair. Rather than waiting for someone to schedule, charge you for driving to the boat, do a crappy troubleshoot, lousy repair, and send you a bill for more than a whole new unit..
You might get a great, inexpensive repair...... but most AC stories I have heard are from less than happy boaters.
|
|
|
09-19-2018, 07:04 AM
|
#19
|
Senior Member
City: Anchor Pointe, Ohio
Vessel Name: Sea Moose
Vessel Model: 1976 34' D/C Taiwanese Trawler
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 360
|
Rain Dog, the newer units are surprisingly quiet compared to the old ones. They are, however, more expensive.
|
|
|
09-19-2018, 08:16 AM
|
#20
|
Senior Member
City: Norfolk, VA
Vessel Model: Bayliner 3870
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 308
|
I replace the 20 year old CruiseAiiiir unit in the forward cabin on my boat when it burned up last year with a new Webasto self contained unit. Out of the box it was noticeably quieter than the old unit and after a year of running it, it's so quiet you really only hear the noise of the air out of the vents. You have to really pay attention to hear the compressor kick on and off. Very nice, worth every penny
|
|
|
|
|
Thread Tools |
Search this Thread |
|
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
» Trawler Discussions |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|