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Old 11-14-2018, 10:52 AM   #81
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Since it is virtually impossible to comply with ABYC safety standard 1.7.3 with a manual shut off valve at the cylinder inside the locker, most boats have electric solenoid valves at each appliance.

A-1.7 CYLINDERS, VALVES, AND SAFETY DEVICES 1.7.1 Cylinders used in LPG systems shall meet applicable DOT regulations or ASME requirements.
1.7.2 Each appliance shall be served by a separate low pressure, (i.e., 14 in water column [3.5 kPa]), regulated supply line that shall originate inside the cylinder locker or protective enclosure.
1.7.3 A readily accessible manual or electrically operated (e.g., solenoid) shutoff valve shall be installed in the low or high-pressure line at the fuel supply (see A-1.7.6.1 for valve location requirements).
1.7.3.1 The valve(s) or its control shall be operable in the vicinity of the appliance(s) in the event of a fire at any appliance(s). If the cylinder shutoff valve is readily accessible from the vicinity of the appliance, the shutoff valve on the supply line is not required.
1.7.3.1.1 The valve or its control shall be operable without reaching over the top of any open flame appliance (e.g., cooking appliance burners).
1.7.4 In addition to the valve required at the cylinder, a multiple cylinder system shall be provided with a shutoff valve, or automatic check valve, at the cylinder manifold so that each cylinder can be isolated from pressure feedback from other cylinders.

Note: there is no USCG approved hose. The USCG has no specifications on the hose. ABYC requires as follows:
A-1.9 FUEL LINES
1.9.1 As installed, the fuel supply line system and its components shall be compatible with LPG, and shall withstand the stresses and exposure of the marine environment.
1.9.2 LPG fuel supply line shall comply with the construction, performance, manufacturing, and production test, and marking requirements of UL 21, LP Gas Hose or
1.9.2.1 be corrosion resistant metallic tubing such as annealed copper tubing, standard type, Grade K or L, conforming to ASTM B88-75a, Specifications for Seamless Copper Water Tube , with a wall thickness of not less than 0.032 in (0.813 mm).
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Old 11-14-2018, 12:32 PM   #82
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Surveyors have been taking a beating in this thread and as a surveyor I don't completely disagree with the complaints. I survey to ABYC Standards and make that clear to everyone that hires me. If you don't like that, I keep a list on my website of the other 250 surveyors in Ontario. The recommendations in my survey reports clearly state those required by law, Those that are voluntary standards (NFPA, ABYC, ABS, SAE etc., and those that are my opinion. From there it's up to the insurer to decide.

I find that the vast majority of insurers do not even read the reports, they simply flip to the valuation and write a policy. Boat US is a noted exception as they seem to have people that not only read the reports but even understand them. I've had a couple of calls from them over the years asking for clarification.

We all agree that there are many (a majority ?) of pretty pathetic surveyors out there and their very existence is due to the the underwriters accepting their pathetic reports. The insurance companies could rid the industry of these charlatans within a couple of months if they stopped accepting their drivel.

Of course most surveyors feel compelled to write reports to some kind of standard and ABYC is it. Much of this is just CYA but I personally believe that ABYC has great value.

I find it a little strange that in the US this CYA is so resented as it is a natural by product of the most litigious society on earth. The Kohler generator suit is a perfect example. The surveyor reported that the generator exhaust manifold was corroded and it should not be used until repaired. The new owner ignored the advice (he got insurance from a company that did not read the report) and several family members expired from CO poisoning.
The estate sued the yacht manufacturer, the marina, the yacht broker, Kohler and the surveyor.

After spending 300k defending himself the surveyor was eventually dropped from the suit but had lost everything he owned. There is always another side to the story.
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Old 11-14-2018, 03:41 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
Surveyors have been taking a beating in this thread and as a surveyor I don't completely disagree with the complaints. I survey to ABYC Standards and make that clear to everyone that hires me. If you don't like that, I keep a list on my website of the other 250 surveyors in Ontario. The recommendations in my survey reports clearly state those required by law, Those that are voluntary standards (NFPA, ABYC, ABS, SAE etc., and those that are my opinion. From there it's up to the insurer to decide.

As someone who pays for surveys, I want a surveyor to tell me about the condition and value of the boat. Part of that is to call out items that don’t meet state and federal requirements and items that are a clear safety risk. In addition, I want to know any recommendations that the surveyor may have that would improve the safety and performance.

On my current boat’s survey, the surveyor called out two items that needed to be corrected immediately. My insurance company allowed me to the move the boat to my home port, but didn’t allow the boat to be used until those items were corrected. The insurance company didn’t care about the other very good recommendations that the surveyor made in his report. To me, the system worked great. I benefited from the surveyors expertise. The Insurance company ensured that the boat was a good risk. The lender as assured that it was a good financial risk.

The key was how the surveyor wrote the report. He was very clear about those two items that needed to be corrected (propane leak and non-functional starboard running light). He was equally clear about the recommendations which would bring the boat up to current ABYC standards. Being clear, there was no issue with the insurance company (BoatUS) who read the report and only issued a restricted policy until those two items were resolved.
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Old 11-14-2018, 07:16 PM   #84
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It's nice when it works, not so when it doesn't.

Like the old saying about...... how it's less about what you say, but how you say it....

.....and in this case...how the insurance ompany interprets it.
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