Paging Peggy....

[tiz]

So, i removed the vent filter from our mainship 390 holding tank vent. It's unfortunate that the vent is like 1/2" hose as i know bigger is better. I cant reach the bent fitting to change it.

The system is not smelly inside the boat. We have a vacuflush system which uses fresh water.

Now when the commode is flushed, the burst of strong sulfur-smell encapsulates the entire boat inside and out.

We will be the darling of the anchorage.....

I use ko. What can i do about the smell?

--kevin

 

[Comodave]

The best fix is to get more oxygen into the tank. Either put in a larger, preferably 2 vents one to each side of the boat, or put in a bubbler system and the current vent will likely be adequate l. Some here have made their own bubbler system. I have put Groco Sweetank in some of our boats and they have worked well. More oxygen in the crap and you will get aerobic bacteria which is good and doesn’t smell. Not enough oxygen and you get anaerobic bacteria which is bad and stinks horribly.

 

[tiz]

Thanks. A vent to either side isn't feasible. With guest cabin on port the hose route would be 20 ft long. Stbd existing could be replaced if i want to carve up the hull inboard of the vent fitting for access.

Probably don't have access for a bubbler. May go back to a filter for this season as I don't really have bandwidth to restructure the vent.

--Kevin

 

[Comodave]

The Groco Sweetank comes with a bung so you just use a hole saw to cut a hole in the top of the tank and insert the bubbler pipe. It is very low draw on power, like 4 watts or so. Then your existing vent will be good enough for aerobic bacteria to grow. You really want to get away from the vent filter. They block airflow and make the problem worse.

 

[Bacchus]

A DIY bubbler is cheap and effective.
Details on my Bacchus site (link in signature)... Projects section.
I had a spare fitting but as Dave said EZ add ons are available & easy.
Bubbling via a dip tube is fine.
[EDIT] The 12V aquarium I used & show has been incredibly durable. Mine runs 24/7 for 6+ months / season and the original installed in about 2015

 

[HeadMistress]

IMO a bubbler is the best solution. A number of boat owners have DIYed them using a bait well or fish tank aerator. They go inside the tank, so I'm fairly certain you DO have room for one.0 Bacchus, a member here, is one...send him a PM asking for his help.

You could even pay someone to install one for about the price of another filter.


I see Don showed up while I was typing. Great!


-Peggie

 

[Airstream345]

We added one, a 12v aquarium air pump from Amazon, some pvc pipes, some flexible tubing and for about $40 our tank no longer smells.

I also upgraded the vent to a 3/4” hose with a 3/4” thru hull fitting to replace the vent fitting in the hull.

 

[Imacss]

Hi all. I have a Clipper 34 (1985 Mark III - I believe). It is the twin cabin version with Heads fore and aft. I also have been chasing a smell since purchase 5 years ago. It almost disappears after opening windows and doors etc and I have always thought is was solely due to a slight diesel leak. Well, the diesel tank finally failed and I have now installed a Poly Tank (with no leaks) but in the process of cleaning the bilge etc where the tank sits I "accidentally" got my nose very close to the sanitation hose from the front Head to the holding tank in the aft cabin and the hose itself is "very" smelly I must say. My question is - should I consider replacing this hose or is there a treatment etc for it to reduce or eliminate the smell? Hoping this makes sense and I do apologise if this has been covered elsewhere on this forum. Cheers.

 

[kthoennes]

Ever since we removed the vent filter on Peggy's advice a few years ago, we've never had a holding tank or toilet-related smell ever since. Vanished. All the money I spent changing those filters constantly, trying to get the smell to go away...

 

[HeadMistress]

I love reading that applying a simple law of physics (organic matter can't generate odor in aerobic conditions) worked again for y'all!


Imacss: Replacement is the ONLY cure for permeated hose and if one stinks, they all will if they don't already, so bite the bullet and replace 'em all at once--and with hose that's not only guaranteed to remain odor free for 10 years, but is also so flexible it can be bent almost as tight as a hairpin without kinking, which makes the job a LOT easier! That would be Raritan SaniFlex RaritanSaniFlex hose which is also the top rated sanitation hose. Defender has 1" and 1.5" for $10-$11/ft, Raritan Sani / Flex Sanitation Hose at Defender and they sell it by the foot (many retailers only sell 50' coils. You can use Shields or Trident #148 (the cheap stuff) for the toilet intake and vent lines.


I HOPE you your new poly fuel tank IS tank made to hold fuel, not a tank from a water/waste tank mfr 'cuz poly fuel tanks must be made of of CROSS LINKED poly which is a different type of poly than the linear poly used to make water or waste tanks...petroleum products will saturate it. Plastic fuel tanks must also meet a bunch of USCG standards that include "no surface on which liquids can pool" and "all fittings (which must also meet USCG standards) ON the top."


--Peggie

 

[Comodave]

+1 on the Raritan SaniFlex hose. Excellent and very flexible.

 

[Don L]

So, i removed the vent filter from our mainship 390 holding tank vent. It's unfortunate that the vent is like 1/2" hose as i know bigger is better. I cant reach the bent fitting to change it.

The system is not smelly inside the boat. We have a vacuflush system which uses fresh water.

Now when the commode is flushed, the burst of strong sulfur-smell encapsulates the entire boat inside and out.

We will be the darling of the anchorage.....

I use ko. What can i do about the smell?

--kevin

wouldn't the easy and cheap fix be to just install a another vent filter?

 

[Comodave]

wouldn't the easy and cheap fix be to just install a another vent filter?

No to the filter. Yes to 2 vents. Filters block the airflow which promotes the anaerobic bacteria which is the bad stinky bacteria. You want air in the tank so aerobic bacteria can grow. I installed 2 1.5” vents on our current boat. One to each side of the boat. I used Uniseal plugs to connect the hoses to the holding tank. If you have the room to run the vents it is pretty easy to do. Or add a bubbler system if you can’t add 2 large vents.

 

[Don L]

. Filters block the airflow which promotes the anaerobic bacteria which is the bad stinky bacteria.

if you keep the stink in the tank where it belongs jt doesn't matter if the tank goes anaerobic. Lots of city WWTPs work this way. You don't need air in the tank if your tank, hoses, connections are not leaking.

 

[HopCar]

I’m not a fan of filters in vent lines but if you didn’t have a problem before you removed the filter, just replace it.

The danger is the small vent hose and filter can clog. Then you have a whole other problem.

 

[Comodave]

if you keep the stink in the tank where it belongs jt doesn't matter if the tank goes anaerobic. Lots of city WWTPs work this way. You don't need air in the tank if your tank, hoses, connections are not leaking.

Until the smell finds a way out of the holding tank into the boat…

 

[Don L]

well you should fix that!!!!

 

[HeadMistress]

No to the filter. Yes to 2 vents.

Dave, you keep "mandating" two vents, but two vents that accomplish anything more than one is impossible on many boats. Worse yet, I keep reading (not necessarily from you) that "Peggie Hall recommends two vents." I don't and never have. That CAN be a solution, but it's not the only, nor even the best, solution on every boat and, as already noted, so impractical on some boats as to be impossible.

--Peggie

 

[Comodave]

I don’t believe I have ever said that you mandated 2 vents. 2 vents or a bubbler are good solutions as I said above. I am not a fan of vent filters though. I said or add a bubbler if you can’t add 2 vents. Our last boat didn’t lend itself well to 2 vents so I put in a bubbler system, Groco Sweetank. Read what I posted in #2 and #4. I just prefer the 2 vents to a bubbler system since it is simpler. No electricity required and no maintenance.

 

[Don L]

I use ko. What can i do about the smell?

--kevin

One thing worth doing is flushing your tank to reduce all the built up solids

 

[Bacchus]

I don’t believe I have ever said that you mandated 2 vents. 2 vents or a bubbler are good solutions as I said above. I am not a fan of vent filters though. I said or add a bubbler if you can’t add 2 vents. Our last boat didn’t lend itself well to 2 vents so I put in a bubbler system, Groco Sweetank. Read what I posted in #2 and #4. I just prefer the 2 vents to a bubbler system since it is simpler. No electricity required and no maintenance.

Dave
Our Mainship is one of those that I couldn't get one or two good vents (large, short & straight) so I opted to go the DIY bubbler route and could not be happier.
For about $40 I installed the 12V aquarium bubbler and the original unit (2015?) is still going and it runs 24/7 for our NE 6 month season w no maintenance req'd.... details in Project Section of my Bacchus Website.
https://dkloeber.wixsite.com/bacchus

I would not consider a filter a solution for a smelly tank... they pretty much guarantee a smelly tank ( with foul odors just waiting and looking for a way to escape). Prior to adding Bubbling we were criticized at pump out locations pretty regularly and one actually suggested we change our diet!?

 

[Don L]

I would not consider a filter a solution for a smelly tank... they pretty much guarantee a smelly tank ( with foul odors just waiting and looking for a way to escape).

But that is the thing. Accepting a system that odors get out of from anywhere other than the vent is wrong IMO. A "good"smelling holding tank is still way more odor than you should accept getting out of the tank and into your boat.

I have been full time on my boat for almost 7 years. The odor only gets out from the vent. I have used vent filters in the past and they work great (don't have one installed currently).

A vent filter is just a carbon filter it doesn't stop air going either way through the vent unless you clog it up by overflowing your tank.

 

[Comodave]

Dave
Our Mainship is one of those that I couldn't get one or two good vents (large, short & straight) so I opted to go the DIY bubbler route and could not be happier.
For about $40 I installed the 12V aquarium bubbler and the original unit (2015?) is still going and it runs 24/7 for our NE 6 month season w no maintenance req'd.... details in Project Section of my Bacchus Website.
https://dkloeber.wixsite.com/bacchus

I would not consider a filter a solution for a smelly tank... they pretty much guarantee a smelly tank ( with foul odors just waiting and looking for a way to escape). Prior to adding Bubbling we were criticized at pump out locations pretty regularly and one actually suggested we change our diet!?

Absolutely agree. I like 2 vents because it is simple. But out of our last 4 large boats in 2 of them i went with bubblers because I couldn’t fit 2 vents in and 2 I went with 2 vents. No filters in our boats, well the current boat has a filter. But Formula nicely put it where you can’t reach it unless you have 6’ arms. So it appears that it is original and no one has ever changed it. So I just left it in place when I added the 2 vents.

 

[HeadMistress]

if you keep the stink in the tank where it belongs jt doesn't matter if the tank goes anaerobic. Lots of city WWTPs work this way. You don't need air in the tank if your tank, hoses, connections are not leaking.

All tanks--water,fuel and waste--have to "leak" because all tanks must be vented to provide an escape for air displaced by incoming contents and provide a source of air to replace contents as they're pulled out. USCG regs require that all fuel and waste tanks be vented to the outside of the boat.When air displaced by incoming waste cannot escape out the vent the tank becomes pressurized, creating increasing back pressure that prevents the toilet from flushing. Continued use of the toilet against a blocked vent has disastrous consequences--an eruption in the toilet, a geyser out the tank pumpout fitting when the cap is removed or even a burst tank.When organic matter breaks down in anaerobic conditions it generates hydrogen sulfide and sulfur dioxide gasses which not only stink, but are toxic, and methane which is odorless but flammable--the reason for the USCG reg requiring all fuel and waste tanks to be vented to the outside of the boat. When organic matter (waste) breaks down in aerobic conditions, it converts to CO2, which is odorless. Oxygen creates aerobic conditions. It can be introduced passively via the tank vent or actively via aeration.

Without a source of air to replace contents as they're being sucked out of the tank, the pumpout or overboard discharge pump will pull a vacuum that'll prevent it from pulling out more than a gallon or two. A particularly strong pumpout pulling against a blocked tank vent can even implode a tank.

All of which explains why it's impossible to have a sealed sanitation system on a boat...and why sewage treatment plant ponds have fountains in them: to aerate them.


--Peggie

 

[HeadMistress]

I use ko. What can i do about the smell?
--kevin


KO is a live bacteria product that can only work in tanks that are sufficiently well ventilated to be aerobic. Apparently yours isn't. So your choices are: switch to a tank product that doesn't need that much air (Odorlos is one...its active ingredient is nitrates which promote oxygen release from the waste...No-Flex Digester is another. Or increase the ventilation by enlarging the vent line--and maybe also correcting/improving its routing. I'll be glad to advise you on the best way to do that on YOUR boat.

Flushing the sludge out of the bottom of the tank 2-3 x/season is necessary preventive maintenance but has no impact on odor elimination.

--Peggie

 

[Delta Riverat]

if you keep the stink in the tank where it belongs jt doesn't matter if the tank goes anaerobic. Lots of city WWTPs work this way. You don't need air in the tank if your tank, hoses, connections are not leaking.

Were that it was so easy...

Mine are not leaking and I do get the "smell" at times. Times when the windows are open and the toilet is flushed. The entering waste displaces an equal volume of air and the tank vent is close to the windows. Doesn't last long as the open windows vent it out the boat in 30 seconds or so.

But for those 30 seconds...

I'm going to do the aquarium pump thing -

 

[Don L]

All tanks--water,fuel and waste--have to "leak" because all tanks must be vented to provide an escape for air displaced

Oh come one now! Are you seriously trying to say I said the tank has no vent???

 

[Delta Riverat]

No, I'm saying that even though your system is correct and working properly, you still get stink in the boat.

Be nice to not have that "little problem" every time you flush with the windows open eh?

 

[RickyD]

Hi all. I have a Clipper 34 (1985 Mark III - I believe). It is the twin cabin version with Heads fore and aft. I also have been chasing a smell since purchase 5 years ago. It almost disappears after opening windows and doors etc and I have always thought is was solely due to a slight diesel leak. Well, the diesel tank finally failed and I have now installed a Poly Tank (with no leaks) but in the process of cleaning the bilge etc where the tank sits I "accidentally" got my nose very close to the sanitation hose from the front Head to the holding tank in the aft cabin and the hose itself is "very" smelly I must say. My question is - should I consider replacing this hose or is there a treatment etc for it to reduce or eliminate the smell? Hoping this makes sense and I do apologise if this has been covered elsewhere on this forum. Cheers.

When I bought Aquarius she had smell in the aft stateroom. I suggested to my broker that I replace all of the sanitation hoses. He said the previous owner did that just before listing the boat so I chased the problem for a year. Spent money on having the bilges under the aft holding tank cleaned in areas I did not really want to go. No change. Finally I put in the best hose I could buy, about $10 a foot, and the smell has been gone for 4 years. YES replace the hoses with the good stuff. I think I used Dometic because it could be bent easier than the alternative. But, do a little research on them and you decide.

 

[Comodave]

Raritan SaniFlex is the best hose and it is extremely flexible so it is easier to install. 10 warranty against permeating.