Norcold DE-704C AC/DC Refridgerator

[alormaria]

I've had a cheap chinese Haier 110v unit for the last 12 years. If I'm going to be gone for a while and I'm at a dock, I plug it directly into 110v land line. Otherwise it just runs on the inverter.

A screen door lock keeps it closed. Brass... so's it's nautical like.

 

[Captain K]

The Norcold unit on my old Marine Trader 44 (1978 vintage) is original. It sometimes shakes, rattles, and rolls, and seems to run continuously when it's hot down here in the Redneck Riviera (northern Gulf of Mexico coast), but it still works. When replacement time comes I may go the route so many of my buds have recommended...putting in a cheap 120volt AC unit. Anybody out the with comments on this?

 

[sunvale]

I have trouble sleeping and the noise from my old Norcold is driving me nuts. I have gotten used to pretty much all the noses the boat makes, but the fridge is never consistent.So I have to find something that is quiet.

 

[Edelweiss]

I have trouble sleeping and the noise from my old Norcold is driving me nuts. I have gotten used to pretty much all the noses the boat makes, but the fridge is never consistent.So I have to find something that is quiet.

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If you haven't already done so, pull your refer out and take a look at the compressor mounting bracket and how it mounts to the back of the refer. On mine everything was tight, but the copper return line loop between the condenser and the compressor was vibrating, causing a harmonic vibration, which was amplified by the metal back of the refer. A block of foam placed between the line and the back of the fridge stopped the vibration and the noise.

Larry B,

 

[FF]

.putting in a cheap 120volt AC unit. Anybody out the with comments on this?

Dockside its fine.

Overnight on an inverter house boxes are poor.

The bigger they are the worse power hogs.

The reason is the insulation is thin and minor so the box volume reads well on the spec sheet.

The downside is most use a internal insulation heater setup to drive the moisture out of the crap insulation, which eats loads of power.

Feel your new dirt home fridge , it will at times be warm around the door seals.

 

[About Time]

I have a Norcold 704 that the freezer is ice cold but the main refrigerator not real cold.Any ides what to look for?

Thanks,
John

I am not sure about the 704 but some refrigerators have two compressors, one for the top and the other for the bottom. My bottom compressor went out and made my refrigerator only cool to about 50 degrees, the freezer was fine. It was probably a 1989 model. Ended up replacing it and used the old one for a shop cooler.

 

[Datenight]

+1 on the Isotherm.

 

[Marin]

We have a Norcold AC/DC undercounter refrigerator/freezer on our boat. Installed by PO so it's now at least 15 years old. It began having a cycling problem about three years ago so we first looked into having it repaired. Called all the refrigerator repair shops in the Puget Sound area that were listed as Norcold service centers. All of them told us the same thing.

They absolutely hated the units and for the most part, refused to work on them. The one shop who said they would still work on them said we'd have to remove the unit from the boat and bring it in, at which point they would look at it but the chances are it could not be fixed and parts were made of unobtainium.

The biggest source of complaint by the service centers was the compressor, which they said was absolute rubbish and was based on this weird 24 VAC inverter (IIRC) system that made no sense whatsoever and was impossible to fix. And you couldn't replace it because they weren't available for older units anymore.

Even the one shop I talked to that still sold Norcold said never buy one.

So..... based on that depressing turn of events we started researching a replacement and in the end decided on an Isotherm unit. Our requirements were AC/DC, fit in the same space the Norcold does (with only minor spacer adjustments if necessary) use the same wiring that went to the Norcold, and has a Danfoss compressor.

We selected a model that fits this bill perfectly but we have yet to buy and install one. The Norcold fixed itself about the same time we changed the battery system on the boat, so the problem may have been related to that and not the Norcold itself, and it has been running just fine ever since.

Our policy on our boat is never to replace anything unless it fails or no longer does the job we need it to do, so we will keep the Norcold, as inefficient as it is by today's standards, until such time as it truly does crap out. At which point, assuming things are the same, we will go with Isotherm.

All the shops we talked to said the average life span of a Norcold unit is five years. The only reason I can come up with for the longevity of ours is that since buying the boat it has never been switched off. Even when the boat is hauled out in the yard it's on groundpower and the refrigerator is on. We keep it stocked year round because we use the boat year round so perhaps continuous use is good for it.

 

[rwidman]

............ Our policy on our boat is never to replace anything unless it fails or no longer does the job we need it to do, ..........

I don't really have a formal policyy for my boat, but I have replaced things just because I didn't like them (the carpet with synthertic teak and holly flooring) and I would replace something that hasn't failed yet but is showing signs of impending failure. Like a leaking potable water pump that still pumped OK. And I added an accumulator tank to prolong the life of the replacement pump and give smoother water delivery.

 

[Marin]

Our "don't replace unless failed or no longer does the job that's needed" applies to the boat's current systems. It does not apply to things like carpet and coffee mugs, nor does it apply to adding equipment that's deemed necessary or beneficial.

 

[C lectric]

Hopefully the photo files show up.

They are of the control circuit for my Norcold fridge. Although the specifics may vary from model to model and over the years this is likely very similar to what anyone with a Norcold has.

You can see that the motor is 20VAC, and whether run on 12DC or `120VAC the transformer is involved, no way around it.

I found years ago that there is a frequency adjustment, a sliding adj. on a wound wire resistor, and the frequency had fallen off causing a slow running motor on 12VDC thus lousy cooling. I noticed a change in the sound when changing to 120VAC from the 12VDC.

I did build and install a muffin cooling fan drive that runs when the motor runs to evacuate the cabinet of hot air.

I will replace my unit this year, I think,maybe, even though it still runs and cools well simply because it is a power hog compared to the Danfoss operated units and it has no box insulation.

If anyone is interested I can post the fan power circuit.

 

[BruceK]

There are items on boats which some might say should be replaced or refinished, but the owner charged with maintaining the boat usually knows if there is still effective service life in an item to retain it as is, because it is not yet "spent".
Of course aesthetics can play a part in a replacement or rejuvenation, often at the insistence of The Admiral.

 

[FF]

"owner charged with maintaining the boat usually knows if there is still effective service life in an item to retain it as is, because it is not yet "spent"."

Actually in refrigeration newer tech is far more efficient so the decision on tossing old stuff is different.

If a new fridge will do the job with half the energy , this would be a Prime reason to swop for an anchor out cruiser, meaningless for the M>M folks.

 

[rwidman]

.............If a new fridge will do the job with half the energy , this would be a Prime reason to swop for an anchor out cruiser, meaningless for the M>M folks.

That's the same reason many of us replace perfectly good incandescent lamps with LEDs.

 

[rhakct]

If anyone is interested I can post the fan power circuit -
I'd be interested in seeing how you did it...

 

[BruceK]

"owner charged with maintaining the boat usually knows if there is still effective service life in an item to retain it as is, because it is not yet "spent"."

Actually in refrigeration newer tech is far more efficient so the decision on tossing old stuff is different.

If a new fridge will do the job with half the energy , this would be a Prime reason to swop for an anchor out cruiser...

Agree totally. Ditto for LEDs, Rwidman.
I would distinguish these as very sensible improvements due to new technology,not just replacing or renewing an item as it finally becomes spent.

 

[C lectric]

I did this 12-15 yrs ago so it has worked since then.

I used a piece of PCB to mount the components. [Perforated Circuit board]

The sketch is the schematic and the parts I used. What ever I had on hand at the time so most of it is overkill for the fan. I think the only exceptions were the terminal strips - orange and the fan, the 4".

The resistors I used will result in approx 12.8 VDC output to the fan. One mod. would be to simply purchase a 12VDC voltage regulator rather than the resistor setpoint type. I had these on hand so fiddled.

The layout on the PCB was quite straightforward. I just used copper wire strands for the jumpers between components as required and soldered.

The PCB board was then secured to the fridge back although that location could be anywhere in the cabinet cavity.

The AC I got from the leads that lead to the compressor motor. The motor has pull apart connections. I carefully exposed the barrels and wrapped the fan drive leads around and soldered to the AC leads. Then the new wire was taken to the PCB board. There is NO polarity for these leads.

I don't have a better picture unfortunately.

I did put a fuse and fuse holder on both the AC & Dc, PCB mount type mini fuses, glass type.

For the connections of the incoming 20VAC and outgoing 12VDC I used Weidmuller PCB screw terminal strips which should be available from a good electronics store. Alternatives are available including wire and solder directly and skip the terminal strips although they do make things easier.

The fan is a ball bearing type, 4" muffin fan of approx 30-40cfm, nominal 12VDC , good up to 14VDC. and draws measured 180mA. so is a tiny draw on the compressor motor.

One boo boo was using 2 - 3" fans I had. Each individually was dead quiet but together they sounded like a small plane. Use one fan and you will barely be aware of it running.

 

[rhakct]

Well, much as a whole group of people (not just here) seem to think old things should just be thrown away, I'm proud to say my Norcold is back up and running again - Hell, it's only 33 years old, half my age, good thing nobody threw me away at that young age !!

 

[bfloyd4445]

I think they are part of Thetford Inc. Norcold Inc. Refrigerators

 

[sunvale]

My fridge is just as old but makes and ungodly racket when first starting up. Going to take it out and have it bench tested by a shop and see what causes it. I think it needs some freon, does not get very cold at mid setting.

 

[Marin]

Well, much as a whole group of people (not just here) seem to think old things should just be thrown away, I'm proud to say my Norcold is back up and running again...

We are in the same camp. We do not replace anything on the boat unless it fails or no longer does the job we need it to do. Our boat came with a Norcold undercounter refrigerator freezer which, despite its old-technology refrigeration system, relatively high power consumption, and lack of adequate insulation, does a very good job plus has an excellent interior design in terms of stowage.

The high power consumption is not an issue for us. The Norcold has been running 24-7-365 since the day we took delivery of the boat in 1998, but in the slip it's on ground power and when we're out the batteries get recharged every day either because we're going somewhere on the main engines or with the generator if we stay in an anchorage for several days. And our boat has a very low electrical load when the navigation equipment is not operating. Just the refrigerator and whatever lights we happen to have on, which is rarely more than two.

We did think we would have to replace the Norcold some three years ago when it started cycling in an odd way and at one point quit running altogether for part of a day. So we did the research and decided on a certain Isotherm model as a replacement. But the Norcold "fixed" itself and his been running just fine ever since. The "fix" occured at about the same time we changed the boat's battery makeup which doubled our house power so perhaps that had something to do with it, we don't know.

So we have a "fix" waiting in the wings should the Norcold decided to call it quits but until that time we see no reason whatsoever to replace it.

The LED light bulb exchange mentioned by Ron is something that would be beneficial not only for the reduced power draw--- which as I said is not important to us--- but for the better quality of light. Unfortunately our boat is old enough that there are no LED replacement bulbs available for the fixtures.

 

[rhakct]

you and your boat usage sound quite similar to ours and our usage, if it was necessary, I'd replace the fridge, but as long as I can keep it working I'm happy with it - and I have the 1000 bucks to use for other stuff. As to the LED bulbs, I'm pretty sure I can find them, but the cost still kinda catches me in the wallet. Guess I'm just cheap... maybe someday...

 

[sunvale]

rhakct
I replaced most of the incandescent lights in my 88 Island Gypsy and had no problem finding them. Only had problem with the small automotive light bulbs in the 22 heads. But that will be addressed as well.
Peter

 

[rhakct]

OK - I gotta ask - what kind of boat do YOU have that has 22 heads? couldn't possibly be a misunderstanding???

 

[Codger2]

OK - I gotta ask - what kind of boat do YOU have that has 22 heads?

 

[BruceK]

As to the LED bulbs, I'm pretty sure I can find them, but the cost still kinda catches me in the wallet. Guess I'm just cheap... maybe someday...

Try Ebay. 2 lots of LEDs bought from HK,arrived fast, cheap (nothing like boat shops), and worked. Total draw of LED 5 replacements of 25W incandescents is less than 1 old incandescent.
There are many areas on a boat where you can keep an old item ticking along until it really has to be replaced. But LEDs are a "no brainer" with immediate benefits for electrical loading.
Sunvale, I figured the lights in the heads are not on long enough to be a big issue for LED replacement.

 

[Marin]

We'd replace the incandescent bulbs on our boat with LEDs if we could. But the bases of the bulbs in our '73 boat have not been replicated by the LED folks. We've tried, our marine electrical shop has searched all over the place, but LED's are unobtainium for our vintage of lights.

 

[BruceK]

We'd replace the incandescent bulbs on our boat with LEDs if we could. But the bases of the bulbs in our '73 boat have not been replicated by the LED folks. We've tried, our marine electrical shop has searched all over the place, but LED's are unobtainium for our vintage of lights.

Marin, IG copied some GB features, this might help, most of my fittings take Edison screw bulbs, which I found 2 years ago on ebay as wide spot "bulbs" at around $12, incl shipping. Which will be no help at all if GB used different fittings.

 

[Marin]

No, our GB uses a large two-pin bayonet mount for most of the interior lamp bulbs. These are available as incandescents but so far (at least as of a year or so ago) no one has used this particular bayonet base for an LED light. And we hate the blue-white of a lot of LEDs so we wouldn't want them even if they were available.

LEDs are available now in "warm" color temperatures but again, apparently not in the base type that our boat uses.

 

[FF]

LEDs are available now in "warm" color temperatures but again, apparently not in the base type that our boat uses.

A look in a catalog might find bases that could be swopped in to your existing lamp housings.Soldering is a simple skill.