No steering!

[BoatPoor]

Well, we took the new to us 41' Mainship Mediterranean out for her maiden voyage this afternoon. Not having any experience with power steering on a boat I wasn't sure how much pressure there should be, but thought well maybe it's just really light until we're under way.
Had my grandson cast off the lines and put both engines in forward to ease out of our covered slip.
The boat tried to turn left into the side of the slip so I had to feather the transmissions and throttles to get out without hitting anything, and once under way it just wanted to turn left.
There is no apparent input from the steering wheel and it just freewheels with no pressure at all.
As near as I can tell the rudder is stuck to the left but the water is very murky and I can't see what's going on yet.
The boat has been sitting for a couple of years ago I'm wondering if it lost all of the fluid somewhere (no readily apparent leaks that I can see) or a pump/ram failure.
Any ideas?

 

[Lou_tribal]

Well, we took the new to us 41' Mainship Mediterranean out for her maiden voyage this afternoon. Not having any experience with power steering on a boat I wasn't sure how much pressure there should be, but thought well maybe it's just really light until we're under way.

Had my grandson cast off the lines and put but engines in forward to ease out of our covered slip.

The boat tried to turn left into the side of the slip so I had to feather the transmissions and throttles to get out without hitting anything, and once under way it just wanted to turn left.

There is no apparent input from the steering wheel and it just freewheels with no pressure at all.

As near as I can tell the rudder is stuck to the left but the water is very murky and I can't see what's going on yet.

The boat has been sitting for a couple of years ago I'm wondering if it lost all of the fluid somewhere (no readily apparent leaks that I can see) or a pump/ram failure.

Any ideas?

First idea: check your fluid level so you know if it is low or not.

L

 

[BoatPoor]

That's the next step but we ran out of time by the time I got her back in the slip. It will probably be next weekend before I can get back out there. Just seems strange that there's no lock or pressure at all when turning. I can literally spin the wheel with one finger and it will keep spinning, almost like the wheel is loose on the shaft.

 

[jgwinks]

If its a Hynautic system, back by the rudders there will be a tank with a pressure gauge. Pressure should read about 20 psi. There's a level gauge too. So add fluid to the proper level and pump it to 20#. Then go spin the wheel 30 turns one way and 30 turns the other. You should feel resistance building as you do this and when done the rudder should be turning. There should be access somewhere in the boat where you can see the cylinder and rudder shaft turning When I bought my boat it had been in storage a couple years and the lower helm worked but the upper just spun. Fortunately the system manual was still on the boat and I was able to fix it. I don't know about other brands but they may be similar.

 

[Keysdisease]

This what a Hynautic reservoir looks like, like jg said for where to look for it

 

[Keysdisease]

This is a Sea Star helm, the other system Mainship used.

Neither system is "power steering" They are hand operated hydraulic steering systems, the Hynautic system is pressurized, and the Sea Star system is vented. The Sea Star system has no reservoir, it uses the helm.

The steering wheel is mounted on a tapered shaft (3/4" w 1" per ft taper) and is keyed. It would be very unusual for the wheel to spin on the shaft

More than likely if Hynautic you have a loss of pressure, and if Sea Star low fluid

 

[sean9c]

It might be advisable to have someone qualified from the local boatyard sort out your steering

 

[BoatPoor]

I had to go back out there yesterday to repack the stuffing boxes and found the reservoir in the aft bilge. Had my portable air tank with me and aired it up a bit( couldn't see the gauge markings real well but looked like 15-20 psi and it started working almost instantly. Still feels a little "crunchy" but I expect that will work itself out or I may have to bleed it a bit.
Luckily this boat only has one helm to deal with.
Thanks for the advice gents!

 

[Keysdisease]

Hynautic systems only need to be bled initially, for an established system bleeding is not necessary. The 3rd line returns the oil to the reservoir and any air bubbles to the top of the oil in the reservoir. Basically a self bleeding system.
The "crunchy" you feel may be no more than the pistons in the pump going up and down as the eccentric cam attached to the wheel pushes them up and down.

Still feels a little "crunchy" but I expect that will work itself out or I may have to bleed it a bit.

 

[BoatPoor]

Good to know! I've got nearly 40 yrs on automotive steering systems but this is my first boat with hydraulics other than outboards.

 

[Keysdisease]

This is a Wagner helm cutaway view but shows the eccentric cam (#6) which pushes the pistons (#9) up and down as you turn the wheel in either direction. Check valves regulate which way the oil goes, Port or Starboard.
Regardless of brand system, this is basic to them all.

The loss of pressure indicates you may have a leak, keep an eye on it and start looking for steering oil. Cylinder, helm wheel shaft seal, fittings

 

[Solly]

How to purge a Hynautic system..

 

[C lectric]

There are several possible causes of steering failure. that I can think of.

---Of course fluid loss. A leak should show with carefull examination. Also use of the Scot blue paper shop towels wrapped around and/or simply wiped along the lines and fittings. These will show a distinct colour change from any wetting that a white towel will not. Check the level first and then check for leaks. If the level is to low then air can enter the system and affect the upper station first. However, once air is forced into the system then both steering pumps will be affected.

---Check valves. Dual station steering systems pumps usually have a check valve at each output to prevent one pump from simply bypassing oil from the other pump. If they stick from oil that is too old or more likely, from dirt in the system, it will goof up the steering by holding one or more of the check valves open.

---The ram cylinder piston has seals on it to prevent oil from simply scooting past the piston which will interfere with the ram movement. New seals needed.

Check for leaks and level first. If there is a leak it needs to be found or will do it again.

Then look at the steering cylinder for a reseal.

Of course you will then need to bleed the system to purge any introduce air from it.

 

[BoatPoor]

Thanks guys, it's working after re-pressuring the system. Didn't have to add any fluid and have found no leaks anywhere, but it hasn't been used at all in over two years sitting through 100+ deg Texas summers plus the great freeze this last winter that almost sunk several boats at our marina, so I'll keep an eye on it and see what happens.

 

[rgano]

If you are wondering what the actual position of the rudder is, look at the tiller arm on top of the rudder post. Pointing straight forward is usually rudder amidships.

 

[BoatPoor]

Hey Rich, yeah we've got a gauge on the boat for rudder angle.

 

[BoatPoor]

Well, it lost steering again twice today. It had steering wheel we climbed aboard but as soon as I tried to start while under way, it went to nothing. We anchored in a cove and I looked at the reservoir gauge, which showed 17-18 lbs. I bumped it to 20 even and it felt ok again. Under way it lost steering.
We drove it back and stuck her back in the slip (much easier with the rudders straight�&#56611.
Right now I've got the system @ 30 psi and it feels fine, but I'd almost guarantee that it won't steer under way.
I'm going to break out my old hydraulic gauges and see what's going on because the pressure in the reservoir is not bleeding off, the fluid level isn't dropping, and I see no leaks anywhere.

 

[Tomas]

Check the schrader valve on the resevoir.

 

[Nepidae]

No steering

Your issues we have experienced a few times and our reason may not be yours.

Do you have an autopilot? You say it is a new to you boat.

We do and there are times I've had the autopilot turned on and try to manually steer, the wheel will fight me until I disengage.

Just a thought.

Good luck.

 

[JimW]

That is on my “Pre-Check List”, air pressure & Fluid in Hydraulic reservoir . . . Also, steering at Helm Station (Flybridge) working (referenced from auto pilot rudder indicator) . . . Only because I was caught without steering because of lack of pressure . . . The list keeps on growing!

Standing by -

 

[BoatPoor]

Your issues we have experienced a few times and our reason may not be yours.

Do you have an autopilot? You say it is a new to you boat.

We do and there are times I've had the autopilot turned on and try to manually steer, the wheel will fight me until I disengage.

Just a thought.

Good luck.

No sir, no autopilot. The good thing is it's only a single helm so there's one less thing to worry about. Think we're going to go camp on her this weekend so I'll have more time to play with it.

 

[porman]

The manual for my Hynautic system calls for 80 psi. I just checked mine and it is at 65 psi. You may need to up your pressure some.

 

[BoatPoor]

That's good to know, thanks!

 

[ORIF]

I may have missed it but you need to identify what steering system you have. Look at the Hynautic 3 line bleed instructions that Solly posted.

It has a schematic showing the components and the 3 lines. If this is your system, you also need to find the relief screws and following the instructions in the manual. I wouldn't pump up to a high PSI until you know what your system recommends.

I have a 3 line system. The reservoir is in my engine room and the 2 relief valves are in the lazarette above the steering ram.

Post some pictures of the reservoir if you're having trouble identifying what you have.

 

[BoatPoor]

Mine is definitely not the high pressure system as the gauge only goes to 69 psi. It is a 3-line system. I'm going back this weekend and we're staying on the boat so I'll have more time to mess with it.
It's just strange that it works and quits as soon as we're under way, I'm assuming due to rudder pressure.
I'm thinking of doing a complete fluid change since it's most likely the original 32 yr old fluid in it and starting fresh.

 

[ORIF]

Review the 3 line bleed procedure Solly posted and double check to make sure that's your system.

When you get back to the boat, find the box with the 2 relief valve screws. You'll need to back them both off for purging.
Arm yourself with a small bike pump and some Seastar steering fluid and follow the instructions.

Consider putting some oil absorbent pads under your steering cylinder and any other area that may be suspect for a leak.

I'd probably try topping of the fluid to the proper level and going through the bleed procedure before draining and replacing the fluid. That way if there's a leak you'll identify it with the old fluid and you can replace with new fluid once repaired. Then consider draining and replacing once you confirm no leaks. The fluid is a little pricey.

 

[Slider70]

I would pay the money to have a 'knowledgeable' mechanic check out your system or get the proper manual for your particular installation if you have the skilled to do the job your self. Good steering is mandatory not a luxury. You are getting a lot of advice on this form. Some of it may not be applicable to your installation?

I was having trouble with my Hynautic system with no stops along with the pilot wondering. In manual steering it did not seem to be as responsive as it should be? The tech who installed the auto pilot said he thought that one the the valves in the reservalve was not holding?

My manual directed how to bleed the system which was done. It also said that the pressure should be around 25 psi. The system was bleed according to instructions, a half litre of hydraulic fluid added to fill to the proper level.

End of problem. Pilot steers strait, got stops, no longer the need to over steer.

My manual outlined how to bleed the system. It needed to be followed exactly which the tech installing the autopilot appeared not to have done? It did not need any valve work.

 

[CmdrDick]

It sounds like you have air in the system.
Our Mainship has a Hynautic system with two stations. Like yours, it was an unpleasant surprise to get away from the dock in a fast river and have no steering. Luckily, we have two engines and slowly got back using differential power. This vessel had been stored for a couple of years in FL heat while I had medical issues.
After refilling and pumping up the tank I discovered that the seals around the helm shaft had leaked. That was repaired using a $40 kit (HS-05) and watching a youtube video.

But, the same problem repeated and additional inspection found a tiny air leak on the line going into the flybridge helm. Upper helms must be bled first and then the lower helm. In this case there was also a slight bend in the lines that was allowing air to get trapped. The fluid would flow just fine until another bubble of air was dislodged from the "pocket" in the bend of the lines. It took LOTS of bleeding and the removal of the upper helm from it's mount to align the hoses straight and remove all of the air. Good as new now.