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Old 05-10-2017, 03:33 PM   #1
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New Rule Bilge Pumps

Rule just announced a new series of pumps to replace the small pump series they've been selling for about thirty years.

I think the biggest change is that they have incorporated a check valve to prevent back flow. Until now, check valves could cause airlocks. Rule has engineered a way to prevent that.

The discharge nozzle is removable allowing you to easily clean or replace the valve. You can also change the hose size or switch to a 90 degree discharge.

This is Charlie Tilders talking to West Marine about the new pumps.


Of course you should buy them from my old company, Hopkins Carter Marine, not West.
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Old 05-10-2017, 03:41 PM   #2
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Interesting that they now install a check valve inside the pump. Air locking was never one of my objections to having a check valve in the pump discharge. Sticking and plugging up was. Sounds like it is easier to clear a stuck check valve with the new pump, but that might be too late ;-).

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Old 05-10-2017, 03:54 PM   #3
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Quote:
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Interesting that they now install a check valve inside the pump. Air locking was never one of my objections to having a check valve in the pump discharge. Sticking and plugging up was. Sounds like it is easier to clear a stuck check valve with the new pump, but that might be too late ;-).
My concern with a check valve, like yours, has always been the issue of potentially sticking. Most of the time this was a check valve that was added to the discharge hose. Maybe they have found a way to make the incorporated check valve safer?
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Old 05-10-2017, 04:00 PM   #4
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This makes sense and keeps everyone happy in the litigious US. This way the pump manufacturer can still give a rated capacity as the flow coefficient (Cv) of the check valve is a known variable.

Doubt many boat builders or system designers use fluid flow design/modeling software for bilge pumping systems (or probably any pumping system on board.
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Old 05-10-2017, 04:18 PM   #5
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They say they have solved the air locking problem by drilling two little holes in the pump body to let the air out. Could I not do the same with an old style pump? Anybody tried this?
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Old 05-10-2017, 04:32 PM   #6
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You usually get all my marine expense money (or your old company did). Hope all is going well for you and the guys and gals.
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Old 05-10-2017, 04:47 PM   #7
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They say they have solved the air locking problem by drilling two little holes in the pump body to let the air out. Could I not do the same with an old style pump? Anybody tried this?
You probably could, but would only need to if you have a check valve or a dip in the hose greater than the hose diameter downstream of the pump.

What happens, is that the trapped water creates a high discharge head. Centrifugal pumps move fluid by radially impelling the mass of fluid through the volute increasing the velocity and static head. If there is no mass of liquid to move, it remains airbound and fails to generate enough head to open the check valve or clear the low spot in the discharge.

By drilling a vent hole it allows the volute to vent and if there is enough water in the inlet or adequate net positive suction head, the pump will "self prime" (kind of). The vent hole slightly​ decreases efficiency. In more complex systems, automated vents or even a vacuum priming system is placed on the volute.
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Old 05-10-2017, 04:59 PM   #8
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Jabsco will not get another nickel of my money for the junk that they make
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Old 05-10-2017, 05:29 PM   #9
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I agree! What a POS that is. After 30 years, that's the best they can do?
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Old 05-10-2017, 05:55 PM   #10
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Thanks Bigfish.

Dave, They are using a valve similar to the discharge valves used in marine toilets. They won't get stuck closed. If they get something holding them open the only thing that will happen is you'll get a hose full of back flow to your bilge. They actually put these same valves in their Low Profile pumps that have been on the market for a couple of years now with no problems.

For those who don't want a check valve in the line, just take it out.
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Old 05-10-2017, 06:00 PM   #11
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Thanks Bigfish.

Dave, They are using a valve similar to the discharge valves used in marine toilets. They won't get stuck closed. If they get something holding them open the only thing that will happen is you'll get a hose full of back flow to your bilge. They actually put these same valves in their Low Profile pumps that have been on the market for a couple of years now with no problems.

For those who don't want a check valve in the line, just take it out.
Thanks. I have a couple spots where a check valve incorporated in the pump would be really nice.
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Old 05-10-2017, 06:21 PM   #12
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My big gripe with small bilge pumps is that the tiny shafts can corrode rapidly in the presence of salt water with a bit of stray current thrown in. They never provide a ground or bonding connection to protect against this, and although the impeller can be completely disconnected from the motor, it will still show proper function at the idiot light panel while it cannot pump a drop.
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Old 05-10-2017, 06:38 PM   #13
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Where might I find them on the website? I could use one of them.
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Old 05-10-2017, 07:02 PM   #14
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So I need to know why a check valve in the line is risky because it may freeze and not allow the pump to do its job, so why is this different (check valve in the pump and not in the line)?
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Old 05-10-2017, 09:19 PM   #15
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I have no issue with a check valve if used as a back flow device. I do have an issue if it is used as an anti siphon device.

This was an interesting thread:

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=29884
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Old 05-11-2017, 12:25 AM   #16
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Bigfish, it's a different type of check valve than you usually see installed in bilge pump discharge lines. I don't think there is anyway it could fail in the closed position. They are using a joker valve just like in marine toilets.

What Barnacles, I don't think they are shipping them yet. They just won an award at the big boat builders trade show ( Ibex) but it will be a few months before they hit store shelves.
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Old 05-11-2017, 07:09 AM   #17
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Defender has 500, 800 and 1,100 gph models available to order right now.

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Old 05-11-2017, 07:20 AM   #18
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The West Marine down the street from my marina has them in 500 GPM.
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Old 05-11-2017, 07:44 AM   #19
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We know how well joker valves work. �� I'll let someone else try them. BTW my bilges are dry and the pumps never operate.

Thanks.
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Old 05-11-2017, 09:21 AM   #20
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I'd have a real hard time ever buying another Rule pump. They went to sh%*t after ITT bought them with every pump I bought from them failing. ITT also bought Jabsco, and then spun the whole pump business out as Xylem.

Whale, for what its worth, has had such a pump for some time, and the work reliably.
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