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Old 02-10-2021, 09:43 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by BruceK View Post
One feature of the "originals" was exhaust and air intake were in one big tube, exhaust tube inside intake tube, so the latter cooled the former. Memory may be wrong, which explains why it has not been raised here, but fairly sure it was a smart feature of one brand.
Right, the ones I've seen the past few years all have separate intake and exhaust hoses. One coaxial hose would be ideal for marine use, but in trucks and RVs it probably doesn't make as much sense.
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Old 02-10-2021, 11:11 PM   #22
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The instructions regarding the exhaust pipe installation for my Webasto said; no more than 10 feet in length and no more than 270 degrees of bends. I also used a water trap at the hull outlet that keeps the fiberglass from getting too hot.
I remember those numbers from Wabasto as I’ve installed two Wabys.
I suspect the temps are fine as the smaller dia inner pipe has an air jacket around it. The outside pipe of the air jacket contacts the FG hull. I was doubtful about it’s ability to keep the hull hole cool enough.

My present installation is 10’ long (max). I had no problems related to heat and my first Waby exhaust was only about 18” long.
If you don’t have an accessible Espar dealer call the Wabasto dealer (Sure Marine) in Seattle.
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Old 02-14-2021, 12:52 PM   #23
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Is that the double walled exhaust outlet made for these units? Doesn't look like it. The double wall fitting keeps the fiberglass relatively cool, and the exhaust pipe gets really hot. When I installed my Chinese diesel heater, I bought the Espar exhaust fitting. Cost about half what the heater did but you really need that. Mine had that smell for about ten minutes when first started but nothing after that. Like my house furnace does the first time it comes on in the fall, burns off the accumulated dust then no more smell. And with the good job you did insulating the pipe, the through hull fittings going to get even hotter.
It's not the double walled thru hull outlet. It's a generic that was installed during original build in '96-'97. I'll look into the espar fitting. Thanks!

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Old 02-14-2021, 02:40 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by tozz View Post
It's not the double walled thru hull outlet. It's a generic that was installed during original build in '96-'97. I'll look into the espar fitting. Thanks!

-tozz
I no longer have an Espar.
I still do have the through hull fitting, which is on my list to remove and fill the hole.

My exhaust was not insulated and did not get hot enough to be of concern. It was not insulated, nor was it looped close to any interior bulkhead or to any exterior fibreglass.

I would be concerned that yours is too close to flammable materials, and likely too hot. That heat is also exacerbated by the insulation, but in your installation, you likely, due to its close proximity to an interior locker, have no option to remove it, so need to at the very least, re-aim it and possibly deal with the through hull.
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Old 02-14-2021, 03:17 PM   #25
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I no longer have an Espar.
I still do have the through hull fitting, which is on my list to remove and fill the hole.

My exhaust was not insulated and did not get hot enough to be of concern. It was not insulated, nor was it looped close to any interior bulkhead or to any exterior fibreglass.

I would be concerned that yours is too close to flammable materials, and likely too hot. That heat is also exacerbated by the insulation, but in your installation, you likely, due to its close proximity to an interior locker, have no option to remove it, so need to at the very least, re-aim it and possibly deal with the through hull.
Yeah, I'll be working on a solution over the next week or so. The crazy part is that this is basically the same design and route that the previous exhaust took and worked for 25 years. The changes to the design when we replaced the exhaust were minor but seem to be significant enough. It's just a matter of making some small incremental changes to get the radiant temps down a bit.

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Old 02-14-2021, 03:17 PM   #26
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Poor installation. Get rid of that last 180 bend before it goes ito that 90* fitting and run it straight, the most efficient way to run an exhaust. Use the fitting as pictured in Lepke's post.

I disagree with removing the insulation, you want the heat overboard, not cooking those other lines and systems. Get a "proper" exhaust fitting and make them insulate the entire run.

You could enclose the entire exhaust in a larger insulated pipe and run air around it if you want to recover the heat, but you run a risk with exhaust contamination if it runs to an area where you breathe.

Or wrap a copper coil around it and run water through it for some extra heat in a water tank or...?
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Old 02-14-2021, 03:37 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by tozz View Post
It's not the double walled thru hull outlet. It's a generic that was installed during original build in '96-'97. I'll look into the espar fitting. Thanks!

-tozz
I got mine on eBay, I think it was this one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/24MM-316L-C...kAAOSwlUhbhuz1

The center part gets pretty hot, but the outer wall and flange are just touchable warm. Nothing hot touches the fiberglass. The gasket is silicone and good to 400F.
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Old 02-14-2021, 04:25 PM   #28
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Poor installation. Get rid of that last 180 bend before it goes ito that 90* fitting and run it straight, the most efficient way to run an exhaust. Use the fitting as pictured in Lepke's post.
Yeah, i'm leaning towards redoing it but myself so I know it's done right. Cut down the flexible exhaust a little, reinstall the thru hull with one with the double skin and remove that goose neck a bit. But someone told me the gooseneck was for water intrusion since that thru hull is exposed on the bow and in heavier seas it will get exposed to wave action.

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Old 02-14-2021, 07:35 PM   #29
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Tozz, You need a gooseneck to prevent a glug of water from running into the heater. I killed one that way. Be careful of unintended consequences.

Getting back to your original questions, I'd bet the temperatures have always been as high as you describe, assuming the new exhaust mimics the old. It was only the smell from the new hose that drew attention to the system.

Is it a concern? If it were me I'd look carefully for signs of heat damage in the under deck area and around the hull fitting. If I didn't find any I'd add it to my project list, but it wouldn't be at the top.
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Old 02-15-2021, 11:04 AM   #30
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Tozz, You need a gooseneck to prevent a glug of water from running into the heater. I killed one that way. Be careful of unintended consequences.

Getting back to your original questions, I'd bet the temperatures have always been as high as you describe, assuming the new exhaust mimics the old. It was only the smell from the new hose that drew attention to the system.

Is it a concern? If it were me I'd look carefully for signs of heat damage in the under deck area and around the hull fitting. If I didn't find any I'd add it to my project list, but it wouldn't be at the top.
Agree on the gooseneck. Any modifications would be to bring it back closer to the original design and nothing more.

I have thought your second point and perhaps about this being somewhat of a red herring considering how close the two installs really are. The temps probably aren't _that_ much off form original but it's still unnerving to see those temps so close to the inner wall of a cedar closet and the hull itself. My perspective is once access to the hull has been exposed, I should try to make it an even better solution and reduce the heat where we can for piece of mind moving forward.

Seems like there's just enough of a difference to drive the heat up a bit especially with the loss of the air gap against the underside of the sidedeck. Once that's addressed and I get some lower readings on the FLIR i'll button it back up and move on to the other projects.

thanks!
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Old 02-15-2021, 12:09 PM   #31
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The double wall through-hull fitting is available in a 45 degree bend. I can't tell if the picture above is that type. If the 45 is pointed up, the flexible tubing creates a loop. If you have a long run, the flexible SS tubing can be substituted with 3/4" copper plumbing pipe connected with hose clamps and high heat silicon. Copper is pricey, but so is the SS tubing and the smooth wall copper flows much better and can be easier to attach. I wouldn't worry too much about insulation in an area where nothing could come into contact with the pipe. Such an area doesn't exist in most installations.
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Old 02-15-2021, 09:40 PM   #32
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For a reasonably priced exhaust fitting, find a Planar dealer (the Russian heaters - "made in Russia by people who know cold"). They have straight, 45 deg, and elbow. The heaters themselves aren't bad. Note, their exhaust tubing is thinner wall than that sold by Espar dealers, I don't use it. Their insulation wrap is good, about $30 for a 25ft roll. I do a fair number of these installs & servicing, Webasto, Espar, Planar, Hurricane & Kabola. I would never have bare exhaust except in a stack where dry engine exhaust is accommodated. I use two layers of insulation and can put my hand around the insulated pipe without being burned. I will form any bends, wrap the whole pipe and secure with wire before putting in place, then additional wrap over the clamps, leaving no hot surface exposed. Residues on the tubing will make some smoke and odor initially. Exhaust temp of 400F or more is normal.

Without the double wall, the exhaust fitting temperatures will damage fiberglass, probably won't ignite it but I would not take that chance. Fiberglass when ignited can smolder and creep along ever so slowly undetected until it encounters some better fuel like wood, or a chimney effect or other steady air movement and you can have fire break out hours after the original ignition. I've seen where it happened and traced it back to the cause, a shore power inlet in this case. The fire broke out 7 hours after the cord had been disconnected. It caused $35K damage. I swear the FD dumped 200 lbs of dry chemical agent on the boat.
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