Hydraulic Steering Line Repair

[twistedtree]

This is true. However, if you are doing maintenance and repair on fuel or hydraulic lines its prudent to do a bit of research and careful looking before just slapping any old fitting into your system. It can not be assumed that every hydraulic or fuel fitting on a boat will be SAE45. Especially on newer modern boats or boats that have been refit.

A good example is the dual Racor filters. If you install one its almost certainly going to come with 37 degree steel male fittings. You can get a few models with female (I think NPT) and of course could put in 45 degree. But the vast majority that have the 4 way valve come with the 37 degree male steel fitting. See port size at bottom of page in this link. Or check Parkers web site.
https://www.westmarine.com/racor-ma...8e0WcmUnMAoboKUBzMEDVNTh8PChwPTYaAi29EALw_wcB

37 degree sleeve type flare (the best kind over single piece) can be found at McMaster Carr for very reasonable prices https://www.mcmaster.com/37-degree-flares/

If you are going to be making a flare on something that could be removed and installed on a regular basis, or may have to be replaced due to failure, I HIGHLY recommend using a 37 degree flare with a sleeve.

Twisted Tree- I understand your sentiments regarding the next guy. It is a very valid point to take into consideration. Heck...it doesnt even have to be the next guy Sometimes it THIS guy..lol.
But I personally dont like to limit my choices based on that principle alone. I also think its better to discuss all options and make informed decisions.

I will be doing my autopilot upgrade soon. The old autopilot is dead long ago but the pump is still plumbed in. There are 2 places that the hydraulics have a very subtle weep I have since cranked down on those 45 degree fittings to essentially stop the weep. But when the new system goes in it will definitely have the 37 degree sleeved fittings in every area I touch. As far as the next guy. You can label fittings just as easily as you do electrical wiring.

Well, I can't disagree with assessing the whole project and making an informed decision.... I more meant to caution people who are not familiar with the difference between the two, and possibly incompatibilities. I know I bought a bunch of unnecessary fittings and did a lot of head scratching and reading before I figured it out.


Those sleeves are interesting. I have only used JIC 37 hydraulic fittings, never that style copper fittings.

 

[twistedtree]

Here's a trick to determine if a fitting is 37 or 45 without a gauge. Start with a known male 45 and hold it flare to flare against the unknown. Two 45s make a 90. Easy to eyeball the difference if one or both are 37.

Of course this won't work with female flares but if I'm the one who disassembled the joint I have the male flare in question in my hand.

There's a variation of this as well. It requires one known 37 and one know 45, as I think the other method requires.


Hold the known and unknown fittings end to end with the bevels flush with each other. So like in your diagram, but rotate the pink fitting 90 deg ccw. If the fittings form a straight line with the bevels flush, then they are the same angle. If the don't form a straight line, then they are different.


There are also plastic gauges that are pretty inexpensive.

 

[Larry M]

I’ve done 3 repairs on steering lines. A hydraulic shop set me up with the correct fittings. The tubing bender is a cheap spring type but works if you aren’t bending too tight a radius. The first time it took me several tries to get the length and radius’s right so the flairs fit.

 

[ronobrien]

Using a flaring tool isnt difficult, but you do need some room to work. I've only used the cheap flaring tools similar to shown below. The "clamp" bar has to be super tight - put an an adjustable wrench on the wing nuts and thighten them as tight as possible. Its awkward in cramped quarters so you may need to cut-back to an area where you have better access. Similarly, driving the wedge-piece to flare the copper requires a shot cheater-bar on the crossbar. This is not dainty work.

hydraulic steering systems are frequently rated at 900 psi.

Good luck

Peter

View attachment 134182

What you are showing is a double flare tool set, used for automotive brake lines which can see thousands of pounds of pressure. I am not sure if that is necessary for a hydraulic steering, but it certainly won't hurt. It is just a bit more work than a single flare and requires a fair amount of precision to get it right. Good luck.

 

[RustyPBucket]

Greetings,
Mr. PB. I second and third the advice given so far. Single flare is fine and it doesn't take a lot of bench practice time to make a good flare BUT, I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the MOST important, by far, aspect of the whole exercise:


Put the nut on the tubing BEFORE you flare it!!!!!


Um...er...Don't ask me how I know...

Very important point!
The law of Hoyle states that if you don’t, the room to use the tool to make the necessary repairs will have disappeared.

 

[ronobrien]

Very important point!
The law of Hoyle states that if you don’t, the room to use the tool to make the necessary repairs will have disappeared.

Solid advice. Don't ask me how I know either.

 

[TowLou]

For copper tubing that big how about compression fittings? Better then to flair. Id flair smaller tubing and go compression with bigger then 5/16"/8mm

 

[KnotYet]

For copper tubing that big how about compression fittings? Better then to flair. Id flair smaller tubing and go compression with bigger then 5/16"/8mm

For anyone who doesn't think compression fittings are as good as a flared joint,
there are US made high pressure compression fittings available that are rated to
match any pressures the copper tubing will endure and far beyond. The ones I'm
familiar with are Swadgelok brand but the cost will be more than flare nuts, etc.

 

[C lectric]

For anyone who doesn't think compression fittings are as good as a flared joint,
there are US made high pressure compression fittings available that are rated to
match any pressures the copper tubing will endure and far beyond. The ones I'm
familiar with are Swadgelok brand but the cost will be more than flare nuts, etc.

Yes, high pressure Swagelock and other types are available. I have used them in my work and a few at home.

THey do not have the wide spread availability of the JIC 37o or the 45o flares.

In any small town with ANY industry, logging, trucking, fishing, saw mills I can find fittings that will work. Not so with the Swagelocks or other high pressure compression ftgs. They are around but not nearly as widespread which is important when you start travelling in out of the way places.

At least in my area that is what I have found.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Many moons ago I impulse bought several (10-perhaps?) flare fittings ("in lines" and "T"s) in anticipation of replacing water line on our 1979 Marine Trader DC. NOW I know that there are SAE fittings and Metric fittings.....The metric being on the Marine Trader. DOH!

 

[RustyPBucket]

For anyone who doesn't think compression fittings are as good as a flared joint,
there are US made high pressure compression fittings available that are rated to
match any pressures the copper tubing will endure and far beyond. The ones I'm
familiar with are Swadgelok brand but the cost will be more than flare nuts, etc.

From what I can glean from the internet, the copper has to be soft and in order to do that it has to be heated to red hot in order to anneal it. Would be great if there was enough space. I’m sure with with a bit of thinking one could protect the area from heat somehow. I like the idea of compression fittings. I have used them for years in air applications and they work great.

 

[KnotYet]

Two things; the copper tubing in the boat will probably flare ok without annealing
(you'll find out) and the hardware store compression fittings may or may not be up
to the pressure of the steering system. You will find that out, too.
I'm not assuming you'll use the hardware store ones, I just don't know their specs.

 

[Portage_Bay]

Two things; the copper tubing in the boat will probably flare ok without annealing
(you'll find out) and the hardware store compression fittings may or may not be up
to the pressure of the steering system. You will find that out, too.
I'm not assuming you'll use the hardware store ones, I just don't know their specs.

Age of the boat and it's installed copper can be a factor. I've done repair of copper lines, both water and hydraulic, on boats 40 to 50 yrs old. The copper was very hard and would not flare without damage, often cracking unless annealed.