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09-29-2020, 06:20 PM
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#21
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Guru
City: San Francisco
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,094
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacchus
After thinking about this more and checking in the technical sense there are many oxidizers including chlorine, bromine, bleach, and acids that may very well kill bacteria. Sodium percarbonate in the presence of water releases oxygen, water and sodium carbonate. So I'm thinking what we are benefiting from, regarding smell, is the release of oxygen that is not necessarily the case with other oxidizers.
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Not a chemist so I'm hoping someone like Peggy will chime in with knowledge on this. I don't know the answer, but thought sodium percarbonate was a disinfectant of sorts. It decomposes into hydrogen peroxide is my understanding.
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09-29-2020, 06:47 PM
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#22
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TF Site Team
City: Seneca Lake NY
Vessel Name: Bacchus
Vessel Model: MS 34 HT Trawler
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 7,826
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DDW
Not a chemist so I'm hoping someone like Peggy will chime in with knowledge on this. I don't know the answer, but thought sodium percarbonate was a disinfectant of sorts. It decomposes into hydrogen peroxide is my understanding.
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Im no chemist either but that's consistent with my understanding. From Wiki...
"Dissolved in water, sodium percarbonate yields a mixture of hydrogen peroxide (which eventually decomposes to water and oxygen), sodium cations Na+ , and carbonate CO2− "
My thought is that the hydrogen peroxide isn't very stable and breaks down fairly quickly into H2O & O2. All I know for sure is it works for eliminating odors and tank cleaning (likely helped by the NaCO2 which is washing soda - a laundry "enhancer".
__________________
Don
2008 MS 34 HT Trawler
"Bacchus"
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09-30-2020, 04:09 PM
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#23
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Guru
City: Edgewater, MD
Vessel Name: Catalina Jack
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,585
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I recently put some sodium percarbonate in my open shower sump that was black with some sort of thin scum. A day later the portion of the sump that was immersed in water became as white as any white I have seem. My sump has no odor. I did have to remove some hair from the base of the pump but it really wasn't much considering it was the first time I have done since purchasing the boat 6.5 years ago. I will soon be disabling the float switch, filling the sump to the brim, and treating all the surfaces to a sodium per bath.
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09-30-2020, 06:58 PM
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#24
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Guru
City: Edgewater, MD
Vessel Name: Catalina Jack
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,585
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Follow-up - I filled up my shower sump with water earlier this evening and added about two tablespoons of sodium percarbonate. Went back 20 minuutes later and found the water bubbling away with a residue on the surface. I will report back tomorrow with the results.
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10-05-2020, 03:40 PM
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#25
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Senior Member
City: New. Bern
Vessel Name: Carolyn Ann
Vessel Model: Currently a Rosborough 246 was GH N-37
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 124
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We had a Groco sweet tank system on our N-37 with a 120+ gal holding tank that was mounted directly under the master. The tank was fiberglass and had 3 chambers in it separated by baffles with mouse holes (two baffles). First, the system (pump and resulting bubbling) was noisy enough to heard when in bed as it was directly under our heads. The air down tube into the tank was only in the chamber at the forward end of the tank. Unless there was circulation between the chambers, only the forward chamber was being aeriated. The down tube was a bronze/copper alloy and the tank contents quickly corroded it. I've since heard Groco has changed to plastic down tubes. Also, the tank did not have adequate venting as it inly had one 1/2" vent hose on one side. So I installed a second vent and enlarged both vent hoses from 1/2" id to 3/4" to better permit cross flow ventilation. The extra venting help immensely as I had discontinued the noisy nonfunctional sweet tank pump. I also began using an agricultural manure pit digestant (Gempler's) as an additive as it was very inexpensive and worked the same as Norflex. I had no further issues with smell and pump outs were quick and uneventful.
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10-05-2020, 07:30 PM
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#26
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Member
City: Paducah KY, and beyond...
Vessel Model: Tugs / Tow Boats
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 23
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We use a Type II MSD unit. It just breaks everything down and puts it overboard, or to the holding tank if in a no discharge zone.
I add “bugs” to it once a month to keep it thriving... works super.
https://www.envmar.com/pdf/TheMSD.pdf
You can put the same bugs in the holding tank along with the air pump/bubbler.
Good bacteria growth doesn’t stink like bad bacteria. The good bacteria grows on the waste surface in the waste tank, and will block the smell some what.
Chlorine and heavy loaded phosphate cleaners will kill the good bacteria.
The MSD (marine sanitation device) runs the treated waste through a clarifier (PVC tube) with chlorine tablets in it on it’s way to the overboard to kill off the active bacteria before going overboard.
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10-05-2020, 08:41 PM
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#27
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Guru
City: AR
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,515
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The tank was fiberglass and had 3 chambers in it separated by baffles with mouse holes (two baffles).
Mouse holes in a half wall might work ok to baffle a water tank, but not to baffle a waste holding tank...even the slightest clog in one of the mouse holes would seriously negatively the ability to pump out the blocked "chamber" and make it impossible aerate the entire tank. Baffles should have been 1-2" off the bottom of the tank in all 3 chambers.
Vinny wrote:
Good bacteria growth doesn’t stink like bad bacteria. The good bacteria grows on the waste surface in the waste tank, and will block the smell some what.
Not quite. When organic material breaks down aerobically (oxygenated) it generates CO2 which is odorless. It only generates toxic smelly gasses--hydrogen sulfide and sulfur dioxide along with methane which is odorless--when it breaks down ANaerobically. However without a means of exchanging either types with fresh ar, whether passive via tank vents or actively via aeration, the CO2--which is heavier than air, so doesn't rise--can sit on the surface of the tank contents and "smother" then, turning the contents anaerobic and stinky.
--Peggie
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10-05-2020, 10:20 PM
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#28
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Guru
City: Gig Harbor
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 9,046
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FWIW, I installed a tank bubbler very similar to Bachas. I just bought a 12v bait tank aerator and used some 1/2 pvp pipe and fittings and ran it through the 3’ cap at the top of the tank.
It was easy to and all in cost maybe $50 in materials. Somewhere I wrote it up, but can’t find it now.
I have it wired to the same circuit as the shower sump pump. That is left on all the time when we are on the boat and most of the time when we are off it. The bubbler runs 24/7. I have considered using an intermittent timer to cut down on its run time, but haven’t bothered to do it yet. As cheap as the bubbler is, I’ll just buy another if this one dies.
This is the bubbler I bought.
http://www.marinemetal.com/products/.../power-bubbles
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10-06-2020, 07:34 AM
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#29
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TF Site Team
City: Seneca Lake NY
Vessel Name: Bacchus
Vessel Model: MS 34 HT Trawler
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 7,826
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David
Thats the same tank bubbler I used and original is still working fine.
__________________
Don
2008 MS 34 HT Trawler
"Bacchus"
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10-06-2020, 09:19 AM
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#30
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Guru
City: Bayfield, WI
Vessel Name: Gopher Broke
Vessel Model: Silverton 410 Sport Bridge
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 904
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacchus
David
Thats the same tank bubbler I used and original is still working fine.
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I have two 1" vent lines to my tank. Would there be any reason that I couldn't run the air line tubing down the vent line rather than drilling another hole into the tank? It doesn't seem like it would restrict it much, especially since it's forcing air in there.
BD
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10-06-2020, 09:39 AM
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#31
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TF Site Team
City: Seneca Lake NY
Vessel Name: Bacchus
Vessel Model: MS 34 HT Trawler
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 7,826
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BDofMSP
I have two 1" vent lines to my tank. Would there be any reason that I couldn't run the air line tubing down the vent line rather than drilling another hole into the tank? It doesn't seem like it would restrict it much, especially since it's forcing air in there.
BD
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I don't see why that wouldn't work.
I have and would recommend a tube to get to the bottom of the tank to bubble. Mine enters at the bottom as I used an unused discharge port.
Are your vent fittings in the top of the tank? if so you can use a piece of rigid tube to reach the bottom. Adding another fitting not that difficult with the fittings Peggie - Headmistress - recommends. I forget the brand name but they are reported to work very well.
__________________
Don
2008 MS 34 HT Trawler
"Bacchus"
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10-06-2020, 09:48 AM
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#32
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Guru
City: Bayfield, WI
Vessel Name: Gopher Broke
Vessel Model: Silverton 410 Sport Bridge
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 904
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacchus
I don't see why that wouldn't work.
I have and would recommend a tube to get to the bottom of the tank to bubble. Mine enters at the bottom as I used an unused discharge port.
Are your vent fittings in the top of the tank? if so you can use a piece of rigid tube to reach the bottom. Adding another fitting not that difficult with the fittings Peggie - Headmistress - recommends. I forget the brand name but they are reported to work very well.
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Yes vents are at the top, one in opposite corners. I thought the little glass bubbler stones would get them down to the bottom. Not so?
My hesitation on adding the fitting is that I have to pull up the carpet to access the tank. And we just got done reattaching the carpet after pulling it up earlier to replace the waste hose. It gets stretched and damaged each time, so if I don't have to do it I'd like to avoid it.
Thanks for the input!
BD
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