Heater(s) for trawler

[mvweebles]

I solved my heating problem by moving south. Since the early 1960's, TV and movies have been filmed in southern California so ignorance is no longer an excuse for living in colder norther climates where heat is needed.

Just saying......

Peter

 

[tiltrider1]

I solved my heating problem by moving south. Since the early 1960's, TV and movies have been filmed in southern California so ignorance is no longer an excuse for living in colder norther climates where heat is needed.

Just saying......

Peter

I blame my dad. He took me skiing and now I must live some where that has a ski slope 1 hour from the sea.

 

[DDW]

I do think the air handlers built by Real and sold by Sure Marine in Seattle are higher quality than those sold by Hurricane.

No problem with the quality of the Real heat exchangers, just beware the specs are un-Real. The fans are very wimpy compared to the ITR ones so when designing the system use about 50% of the Real spec as the real spec. Alternatively, buy new fans to install on the Real - they are common and cheap. There is only so much a 100 mA fan can do.

Sure marine isn't trying to defraud, they are just quoting the specs for the heat exchanger core under lab conditions. It needs probably 3x the airflow of the installed fans to achieve those ratings. I have a bunch of ITR ones and a bunch or Real ones so comparing is easy.

 

[slowgoesit]

I solved my heating problem by moving south. Since the early 1960's, TV and movies have been filmed in southern California so ignorance is no longer an excuse for living in colder norther climates where heat is needed.
Just saying......Peter

Now you just need to figure out the Heat, Humidity, and flying-biting critters, and you'll be all set!

 

[OldDan1943]

Now you just need to figure out the Heat, Humidity, and flying-biting critters, and you'll be all set!

"heat and humidity" run your A/C.
flying-biting critters? Keep your doors closed and screens on the window.
I dont have this problem in my slips.

 

[trawlercap]

OP is in Seattle. Another advantage to Hurricane for North Americans, especially for those on the PNW is Hurricane is a Vancouver BC company. Marcello at the Van BC office is great at over the phone troubleshooting. If you're in the US the Vancouver Washington office responds very quickly on parts orders.

The troubles I've had with the system were 100% due to poor installation and ignorant support from the installer. I fired them, spent less than an hour on the phone with Marcello, ordered the part from Van Wa and problems solved.

I do think the air handlers built by Real and sold by Sure Marine in Seattle are higher quality than those sold by Hurricane.

I've only needed to make one phone call to Hurricane. Marcello was busy and called me back. We talked it through and I got fixed up.
Amazing service in this day of spending ten minutes with a computer robot only to have them drop the call.
You equipment is only as good as the service behind it. I am %100 in on Hurricane..

 

[trawlercap]

No problem with the quality of the Real heat exchangers, just beware the specs are un-Real. The fans are very wimpy compared to the ITR ones so when designing the system use about 50% of the Real spec as the real spec. Alternatively, buy new fans to install on the Real - they are common and cheap. There is only so much a 100 mA fan can do.

Sure marine isn't trying to defraud, they are just quoting the specs for the heat exchanger core under lab conditions. It needs probably 3x the airflow of the installed fans to achieve those ratings. I have a bunch of ITR ones and a bunch or Real ones so comparing is easy.

Thanks for the heads up, I was unaware of Sure Marine. My wheel house could use another heat exchanger.

 

[DDW]

Sure Marine is a great company. The Real heaters are nicely made, but in discussions with them they have chosen to keep the fans modestly spec'd because they get more complaints about noise than heat output. They typically use 100 x 100 x 25 mm fans in the 100 - 150 mA range. These are pretty quiet and do put out some heat if the inlet and outlet air paths are unobstructed by ducts or grill work. In contrast the ITR "high output" exchanger has a 160 mm fan drawing about 0.6A and puts out way more heat (and also noise). If you need to blow through some ducting, the Real fans degrade to barely a whisper of air. With an axial fan, you need some depth in the housing or it will not blow into back pressure. I replaced the fans in one of them with 100 x 100 x 38 mm, about 300 mA, improved the air flow (and heat output) through the short ducts by about 200% along with more noise. Radial fans are much better for duct work but very noisy and several amps draw.

 

[Rufus]

We're at the end of a two week cold snap on Lake Michigan. High 20's at night and mid-40's during the day. The reverse cycle AC units have done fine...neighbors come aboard to warm up. That said, the units ran a lot at night (but not constantly). 18K unit in salon/galley area, and 8K in the aft cabin. We closed off the forward cabin, which would need another smaller unit if it was occupied. Water temperature has been in the mid 40's. The living area is 40 feet in length. By the way, our boat was originally purchased and operated in Portland and Seattle. So, the assumption that OPs boat is a "PNW" vessel, might not hold true over the years. Adding AC down the road can be expensive and difficult to package (it was done on our boat).

 

[FF]

IF the boat will serve as a livaboard in a northern location , NYC or Boston contemplate what you will do when the electric is OUT for a week or so.

Say 10f at night 20F days.Surface water is frozen 3-12 inches.

Sure its rare , but its the difference between living well and existing.

Best goal is, it all works , even if you are not home.

 

[OldDan1943]

IF the boat will serve as a livaboard in a northern location , NYC or Boston contemplate what you will do when the electric is OUT for a week or so.

Say 10f at night 20F days.Surface water is frozen 3-12 inches.

Sure its rare , but its the difference between living well and existing.

Best goal is, it all works , even if you are not home.

Start the generator, turn on the heat, turn on the TV. Maybe start the main engine and open the access hole to get the heat up into the living area, if necessary.

Just be careful what you turn on if you have a 30amp boat. First load I shed is the water heater.

They do make auto generator start but I am not sure if the generator will auto stop if you are not on board.

 

[rslifkin]

IF the boat will serve as a livaboard in a northern location , NYC or Boston contemplate what you will do when the electric is OUT for a week or so.

Say 10f at night 20F days.Surface water is frozen 3-12 inches.

Sure its rare , but its the difference between living well and existing.

Best goal is, it all works , even if you are not home.

Regardless of heat source, I think the answer would be to fire up the generator to keep the bubblers going. Unless you have lots of solar and battery to power them and fuel fired heat, in which case you might be ok for a while before needing the generator.

 

[DDW]

If it's really 10F at night, your reverse AC is going to be useless for heat, powered or no.

 

[tiltrider1]

IF the boat will serve as a livaboard in a northern location , NYC or Boston contemplate what you will do when the electric is OUT for a week or so.

Say 10f at night 20F days.Surface water is frozen 3-12 inches.

Sure its rare , but its the difference between living well and existing.

Best goal is, it all works , even if you are not home.

If we are talking about my boat I have two options. Run the Hurricane diesel heater and occasionally the generator or drain the water lines, get in my car and drive to some place warm.

 

[OldDan1943]

If we are talking about my boat I have two options. Run the Hurricane diesel heater and occasionally the generator or drain the water lines, get in my car and drive to some place warm.

Or get on your boat and drive to some place warm. SMILE

 

[FF]

"Start the generator, turn on the heat, turn on the TV."


Depends on how low in the hull the sea water intake is mounted.

When cars are driving by on the river, some might not be low enough.

 

[rslifkin]

"Start the generator, turn on the heat, turn on the TV."


Depends on how low in the hull the sea water intake is mounted.

When cars are driving by on the river, some might not be low enough.

If planning to winter over and not just winterize the boat and let it get cold, I'd expect some work would have been put in (placing bubblers, etc.) to keep water from freezing around the hull. If the boat is going to be iced in, I'd be expecting to winterize everything and not be aboard.

 

[Hippocampus]

Been surprised by how effective shrink wrap is in raising the temperature of a boat. Know folks who have comfortably lived aboard in winter with just a diesel drip heater, insulated boat, a few fans and tight shrink wrap. Add in a circulating loop with electric heating coil to keep fresh water tank from freezing and winterize the rest. Where’s there’s a will there’s a way. Don’t know the details but do know people do it. Have worked on my past shrink wrapped boats in the dead of winter and the coat comes off without any heat running.

 

[FF]

"If planning to winter over and not just winterize the boat and let it get cold, I'd expect some work would have been put in (placing bubblers, etc.) to keep water from freezing.

Most winter liveaboards turn off the dock bubble system if there is one under the boat.
It sounds like living in a fish tank , which is annoying , no ones choice for months on end

Most also winterize the engine and other systems not used . should the power go out it made for a smaller fire drill.

The marina bubble setup is to maintain the pilings since if ice forms on them the tides will slowly lift them out.

Many liveaboards simply level the boat trim during the first hard freeze .

In the "old"days it was easy to spot the onboard folks by the pile of TP under the toilet fitting, breaking up or salting the ice there was common.

Ice was a problem mostly for older wood hulls.

The hull calking would freeze with the sea water , a bit of boat motion could start the calking and when free of the ice supporting the boat it could sink.


A winter aboard can be very scenic , but also requires planning and advance work.

 

[koliver]

Building trawler with two cabins, 2 heads, Pilothouse, salon. Maybe 500 sq feet.

Rules are for 12-15 BTU per cubic foot

If adding heater, how many (noise?) and BTU requirements should’ve considered? Also, any comments on air versus hydronic (seems excessive) and no need for AC (n the PNW). Any know differences between Espar vs Webasto (or not significant)

Thank you.

You haven't said how much you will be using your new boat in the shoulder and cold seasons.
If you plan on boating 12 months, your needs will be significantly different than if you are a fair weather boater.
As your usage increases, if you don't set up for 12 month usage originally, you will find adding systems more difficult.
If your usage decreases, there is no difficulty, you simply use them less.
All of the discussion so far, with the sole exception of a post by Lepke, have ignored the most ubiquitous, the reliable Dickinson diesel stove. For 12 month usage, nothing will beat it.

We were out late April/early may this year for almost a week. We used to have an Espar D7L. We have a diesel stove in the galley.
The Espar was a maintenance nightmare, so it came out. We don't miss it.
The Diesel stove requires cleaning, no other maintenance. It was turned on as soon as we arrived at the boat, not touched again until we were leaving the boat on arriving back home again.

I had a Webasto in a sailboat. The Espar and the Webasto require the same maintenance, make the same 737 noises, heat the boat according to how well the piping can be laid out.