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Old 09-28-2020, 07:23 PM   #1
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Gyro and paravane stabilizer

So Iíve got a 42 foot semi displacement boat with massive range Rough guess is at 7.5 kts I should have 4000+ no range. She also has paravane stabilizers built in from factory, now it being a semi displacement hull without running the stabilizers anything over 3-4 feet starts getting uncomfortable, and they are also a hassle for short hops or shallow water like the Bahamas. Iíd say she is actually a relatively tender boat when compared to any full displacement hull. So even with the range to easily cross oceans I would be very hesitant to even consider it with only having one type of stabilization. So I was thinking of adding a Seakeeper 5 stabilizer and keeping the paravane stabilizers as well. Has anyone run these two stabilization systems together? If so did the two of them running together improve upon the overall comfort? And having an inherently tender hull would anyone consider crossing oceans with both systems since you would have a completely separate system for back up?
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Old 09-28-2020, 07:58 PM   #2
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I can't comment on vanes + gyros. Ive run fins + vanes and they work fine. Would suggest run one or the other. Not so easy with gyro that takes 30 mins to spool up.

Per you comment on your boat being tender. David Gerr has done a ton of research on stability. In short, he states that stabilizers do not make a boat more stabile, just more comfortable.

You may want to peruse some of these articles to help you determine the nature of your boats tenderness. Could be initial stability but ultimate stability is fine.

https://www.gerrmarine.com/Articles.html

Peter
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Old 09-28-2020, 08:36 PM   #3
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While I have had neither system, if I had a gyro I think that it would be the go to system due to how easy it is to use compared to the paravanes. It has to be easier to use than deploying the vanes. However you will have to run the genset so that is a consideration. Intriguing question though, I will be interested in seeing what answers you get from more knowledgeable people.
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Old 09-28-2020, 09:57 PM   #4
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The gyro means you run a generator all the time. That changes your range. And it means you're wearing out 2 pieces of equipment. If either fail, you have no roll control.

I ran commercial fishing flopper stoppers for years. I had big ones that allowed me to turn around in huge waves, 50' close together. Some people added hydraulics to put the floppers in and out, making it easier.
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Old 09-29-2020, 12:22 AM   #5
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Hmmm so it’s sounding like it would be a run either or thing, at least If that’s what I decided to do. And I would be able to run the gyro stabilizer off of my alternators and inverter or have a 12 or 24v gyro so while underway I wouldn’t need to run a generator unless Im at anchor, so that would be a plus. I Don’t see the power requirement from the alternators for gyro being any worse than the speed reduction and or power increase needed to maintain a certain speed for the paravane stabilizers, in fact I bet if we really did the math I bet it would be almost the same. Pretty much any way you are cutting it you are converting diesel fuel Into comfort. Kinda figured paravane stabilizers would be used when on the hook for long periods of time with flopper stoppers or when the weather gets to rough for the gyro to be safe, I was hoping using the paravane stabilizers in conjunction with the gyro would make it more comfortable, and safer by the gyro taking some of the load off the rigging for the paravane and give it an extra safety factor so to speak. Hmmmm yes I have read a bunch of his work, but I do have to disagree with some of what he said at least to some extent. And keep in mind I do like a lot of his work but in that statement I believe he is wrong.. Any reduction degree wise in roll is making the boat safer by making it that much harder to get to the point of vanishing stability, now the statement he should have said was all stabilizing systems do not change the boats inherent stability(a boat that will capsize at 65 degrees will always tip over at 65 degrees no matter the stabilizing system) but when The stabilization system is in service it will make the boat more stable by reducing roll and thereby making it harder for the boat to reach the point of vanishing stability.... at least that’s what I get from all the research I’ve read on the subject and I’ve read a lot, not saying I’m right but this is where the research has taken me. Now as for what I’m truly worried about would be heavy weather stuff where if my paravane system failed if it got rough enough I’d probably have to turn off my gyro as well since they don’t do so well in the extremes from the research I’ve done. And with knowing that my boat would not survive what a full displacement boat would and more than likely would not right itself if nocked down or rolled, would that be an acceptable risk? Now I do have options like speed that a full displacement boat would not have, and even to the pins on my boat I still should have over a 1000 mile range so other than for small fast moving storm systems I should be able to outrun most of the bigger systems.
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Old 09-29-2020, 12:24 AM   #6
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Btw I’d also have alternator large enough to run all my systems on both engines so even if one went down I’d have a backup. I’m thinking I’d go 12 or 24V gyro system btw for just that reason.
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Old 09-29-2020, 12:24 AM   #7
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Old 09-29-2020, 12:42 AM   #8
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Do they make gyros big enough to do the stabilization that run on DC? I know they make DC units for small boats.
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Old 09-29-2020, 01:08 AM   #9
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Seakeeper 3 can be dc, and I believe they are working on a Seakeeper 5 in dc. Size wise I need the 5 but Not sure which would be optimal for me because of my weight. I’m 42 long but unloaded weight it only 17,000lbs I figure fully loaded with fuel and stuff I should be around 25,000lbs. So the Seakeeper 3 may work for my boat. Not sure yet and not at the point where I’m needing any quotes
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Old 09-29-2020, 01:37 AM   #10
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It would be an interesting setup.
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Old 09-29-2020, 01:48 AM   #11
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Yea, Gyro stabilizers are fairly common on planing, and semi displacement hulls. But the paravanes are uncommon enough on that style boat I’ve never seen it before, I’m sure it’s been done but I have no clue on the results of it. I’ve also never heard of both on the same boat, let alone both on a semi displacement. It’s prob been tried on a full displacement hull maybe a nordhaven or something similar at some point but again I’ve never seen, nor heard about it so again I’m at a loss on how it will turn out or how effective it would be.
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Old 09-29-2020, 01:51 AM   #12
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Correction I’m sure it’s been done on another boat other than mine. But I’ve only traveled 600 miles in mostly protected waters and my entire experience with them lasted 20 min, to good effect btw but hardly a definitive answer on how good they work for that style boat.
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Old 09-29-2020, 01:52 AM   #13
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Sometimes I’m just not sure what they were thinking when the designed and built my boat. It’s a lot of contradictions, as well as a lot of downsides to it.
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Old 09-29-2020, 01:55 AM   #14
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Lol well obviously it wasn’t the best thing since sliced bread, because the company failed and there wasn’t much of a market for cramped, over priced, super long range, semi displacement boats
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Old 09-29-2020, 03:27 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmarsh203 View Post
Seakeeper 3 can be dc, and I believe they are working on a Seakeeper 5 in dc. Size wise I need the 5 but Not sure which would be optimal for me because of my weight. Iím 42 long but unloaded weight it only 17,000lbs I figure fully loaded with fuel and stuff I should be around 25,000lbs. So the Seakeeper 3 may work for my boat. Not sure yet and not at the point where Iím needing any quotes
You're gonna have to pick a weight to design against. If she's 17k# dry and carries enough fuel for 4000 nms at 7.5 kts, I'd guess she has 1200 gals tankage. Or over 9000# - and that does not include stores, spares, and provisions necessary to trek that type of distance. Hard to imagine she'd sit on her lines properly let alone remain semi-planing. Are you sure you have room to retrofit a Seakeeper with all that tankage?

The only people I've heard who have been unhappy with gyros have undersized them to cut cost. Those who install correct size seem to love them. This is the first I've heard of running from an inverter off engine alternators. Seems feasible, though they take more energy at startup than in sustain/run mode.

Pictures of your boat would be interesting if you care to share

Peter
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Old 09-29-2020, 05:41 AM   #16
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Got it exactly right, 1200 in fuel, twin ford Leighmans for now, she is semi planing with full load right now but is definitly a little anemicat full load, she does about 11.5 full load no wind or current to the pins. Half load is 12.8 ish Thatís why if she doesnít have too many bad habits and I keep it long term after I start cruising her she may get twin Cummins 6bís or maybe 6bt and I will do the Seakeeper mod then. I should have some room amidship for the Seakeeper in front of the v drives and right behind the fuel tanks. Sorry donít have any pics of the space where the Seakeeper would fit but between that spot is about a 6 foot dead space with nothing but the sea strainers which would be easy enough to move a bit. All the cooling water is run through a sea chest about 4 feet to the port off centerline so think it should fit and be fairly easy to move the hoses. Half tempted to turn her into single screw. Her two sister ships were single screw boats. One Had a 300hp Cummins v8 and the other 200hp Perkins turbo. Have no other info on the other boats other than they existed and what they were powered with. but it looks like a 300hp Cummins c series would fit pretty easily, may actually be able to fit an 855 big cam 400hp after some measurements which to my calculations should do something like 17kts with full load. . Idk yet most boats that have done conversions never really turn out well but since I know that it was designed for it on the same hull I feel a bit more warm and fuzzy about it. Iíll say this I really donít like how much room is in the engine compartment with the twins, a single centerline with a generator on one side and Seakeeper on the other would be really nice to work in that engine compartment. But thatís just me bouncing ideas around at this point.
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Old 09-29-2020, 05:41 AM   #17
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Both of those pics are full load of diesel btw
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Old 09-29-2020, 05:44 AM   #18
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Thanks for letting me know about how the people that are happy with the conversions are the ones that size properly and the ones that are not went undersized, that pretty much cemented me in for the Seakeeper 5. If your spending that type of money it’s definitely better to be happy about it afterworlds.
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Old 09-29-2020, 05:47 AM   #19
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I know She looks a little rough btw, but when I am done with her she will look as good as new. Just waiting for the economy to stabilize before I start dumping all my money into her for the refit lol I’m going bare aluminum above waterline, paint only on the hull below waterline and the decks.
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Old 09-29-2020, 05:55 AM   #20
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Window ac unit is definitly coming out btw, gotta love PO’s.
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