Are gate valves positive opening and closing?

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Kit_L

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2016
Messages
476
Location
Australia
Vessel Name
Suu Kyi
Vessel Make
Custom 40' catamaran
Hello all,

I searched the net for a general impression of the design of gate valves; this was the best I found:

https://preview.tinyurl.com/y3rbf52h

Backstory: taking Seabiscuit for spin yesterday, I noticed that although water and exhaust exited the wet system as usual, the exiting water volume was down on normal. I noticed that opening the seacock (a gate valve) there was not the usual tension in the undoing—I thought that, perhaps, the valve handle was spinning in its housing, but not lifting the gate all the way. I should add that I have been using the vessel a few times a week, so I had thought that this had freed up the valve. As well, there looked to be more steam than usual from the exhaust. I put her back on the mooring while I thought about it. Temperature on the dash gauge was normal (82°C).

Thinking though the raw water plumbing, possible blockages could be the strainer on the hull; the raw water 'filter' (a standpipe in the ER with a simple strainer; I have not serviced this for 12 months); and possibly a worn impeller. We are nearing the end of winter here, so growth is slower than in summer, and I have been running the boat regularly.

So, my question: if the handle turns all the way out and all the way in (and it does) is the opening of the gate positive or could the gate be jammed in, and the handle is turning out of it?

[my avatar is the new boat I can't get to; it's stuck in Queensland, a state not permitting travel. The boat I am talking about here is Seabiscuit, the 40' trawler.]
 
That is why gate valves are not recommended, you can’t be certain that they have opened or not. Sometimes they don’t open all the way, like what you maybe experiencing. I would replace it with a true sea cock that has a 90 degree handle.
 
Worked in chemical plants for 30 years. No valve is leakproof over time. Gate valves were on the upper end of leak frequency. The gate 'seals' against a seat but the seal is very susceptible to corrosion or fouling. Another failure mode was that the stem broke inside the valve so turning the handle had no effect in either direction. Leaks at the stem packing is also a problem as the shaft/seal is worked more than quarter turn valve. Modern ball valves are a better choice.
 
It's common for gate valve stem to corrode away the threads in the gate, so the handle turns but the gate doesn't move. This is especially true in corrosive conditions. If the valve is brass, not bronze, it shouldn't be used as a seacock.
 
Think on this.

The valves under your house toilets are gate valves.

Ever have any issues with those?
 
The worst feature of gate valves is that the tiniest bit of debris will prevent them
from fully closing. Commit yours to the deep before they do the same to your boat.
 
Think on this.

The valves under your house toilets are gate valves.

Ever have any issues with those?

:confused:

There are no valves under my toilets. No valves between my toilet and the septic tank.

Ted
 
The seacocks should be ball valves. Gate valves are not meant to throttle the flow.
The valve in your marine toilet .... one might term it as a clam shell?
 
The seacocks should be ball valves. Gate valves are not meant to throttle the flow.
The valve in your marine toilet .... one might term it as a clam shell?

No valve under my boat head or house toilets. Maybe rv plastic type ball flush valve is what you meant ? I don’t know of any water system on a boat that a gate valve would be appropriate as mentioned in other post.
 

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:confused:

There are no valves under my toilets. No valves between my toilet and the septic tank.

Ted

How do you get water into your toilet tank, and turn it off if needs be?
 
No valve under my boat head or house toilets.

Interesting. So if you need to turn off the water flow to your toilet you have to turn off the water to the house at the main input?
 
The answer to the POs question is yes the”gate “ can and sometimes does separate from the valve stem. Bad choice for seawater shutoff. The best replacement is the bronze or marlon seacock. Ball valves are not seacocks.
 
The only valve designed to be used as a throttle valve is a globe valve.
 
I'm not sure which valves he means.
How about on the pressure side?

I think he means toilet water supply valve. No corrosive conditions,saltwater or other marine type issues.. But I have had issues many times with these on rental houses and rehabs..Thats why they make replacement valves so readily available..
 
That is why the newer shutoff valves for toilets are ball valve and mot gate valves. Check the big box stores and you will see ball valves starting to replace the older style gate valve because the gate valves are more prone to leak and fail partially open.
 
Interesting. So if you need to turn off the water flow to your toilet you have to turn off the water to the house at the main input?

Communication, at home I have a compression type water supply stop valve under the toilet tank.
The boat fresh water supply to the head is a ball valve near the water pump discharge actuated by Raritan Elegance flush controls.
 
Last edited:
Thanks everyone. Booking the slip tomorrow. Will replace, preferably with a ¼ turn ball valve if I can get one to fit the rest of the plumbing. I'll pressure wash, replace the through hull at the same time, and anti-foul. Thanks again.
 
That's one way of doing it, perhaps not the ideal way, but it does work. I HATE gate valves anywhere in any kind of system for reasons previously cited. I recently had to change one on the lower end of my water tank sight tube. Why? Cuz it was spinning easily while doing nothing. And gate valves in a fuel system? Not for me.
Interesting. So if you need to turn off the water flow to your toilet you have to turn off the water to the house at the main input?
 
The reason sea cocks are chosen over gate valves is on most gate valves the shaft that operates the valve is "free machining brass".


This comes apart in sea water , tho it might be a decade or two.
 

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