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Old 10-19-2021, 07:04 PM   #1
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Question Dickerson Diesel Stove/Heater

Hi all,

I recently purchased a 42' CHB that I plan on living aboard with my wife in the Vancouver Island area.

The boat has a Dickerson Diesel stove with a two wrap coil that circulates anti-freeze to two Radex heater fans (one in the aft cabin and one in the v-berth).

The stove works great, but I am continuing to have trouble balancing the air/diesel mixture. I get it started and a nice yellow flame above the burner ring with the fan off, the barometric damper about 1/4" open and the fuel value set to 2.5.

Seems like after a while when I look up the flames are very high, soot has covered most of the glass window and I end up with soot blowing out of the chimney top with little pellets of soot covering my upper bridge roof and surrounding areas. This has happened to me more than once.

At this point I get stuck because I can't really see the flame anymore through the window so I basically end up shutting down the stove, waiting for it to cool and then clean the inside of soot before lighting again.

As I am looking to use this as my full time heat source I need some advice/help.

My thoughts include:
- maybe I need to get a brush and clean the chimney (is this a regular maintenance thing? If so, where can I buy a brush as Dickerson don't seem to have anything like that on their website)
- maybe I should take the fuel control off and clean it (I did get a video on how to do this)

Other thoughts?

I am somewhat surprised that the flames go so high. The manuals all say don't burn the flame below the burner ring. But when this happens I end up turning the fuel down to as low as it will go before shutting off and the flames are still intense and lapping the bottom of the cast iron stove top.

Finally - is there a company that specializes in these type of stoves/heating systems in the Sidney, BC area that I could maybe get out to review the setup?

Any help would be great!

Chris
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Old 10-19-2021, 07:26 PM   #2
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How tall is your chimney? I found that although Dickenson is marketed for boats, there are some applications where the chimney isn't tall enough and soot problems are hard to eradicate. Dickenson had or has a little gadget that sits in the fire box and helps "spin" the air around for more complete combustion. It can fix some problems if you are close to getting a clean burn. The only other fix for me was to have a separate fuel supply and burn something like Klean Heat (kerosene) which can get pricey if you live aboard.

It does kind of sound like your problem might be the carburator float. Just too much fuel? I had my carburator apart several times over the years and was surprised at how gunked up it could get with diesel. Again, Klean Heat would not cause that problem, but at a price.
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Old 10-19-2021, 07:43 PM   #3
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The pipe goes from my stove up and to above my enclosed upper bridge. It has to be at least 10’.
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Old 10-19-2021, 07:48 PM   #4
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I have a "Fab All" galley stove. It is identical in many ways to the Dickinson "Pacific". Especially the fire box and the carburetor.

When I converted my boat from a 4 burner Propane stove with oven to the Diesel stove, I struggled for a while with sooting. What works for me:

-A tall chimney. Mine stands about 6 ft above the cabin top. My boat is Galley down, forward of the saloon, with the chimney forward of the hatch above the middle of the galley.
-No damper. A damper was suggested as a solution, but not recommended until other solutions had been tried.
-Small fan below the burner, always on its lowest setting. This came with my stove. Yours likely has one.
-Frequent cleaning of the air holes in the burner bowl. Using a tiny drill bit works well, but a fat sewing needle or pin might work. [B]This is likely the most important.[B]

When (infrequently) the window soots up, I increase the heat and it burns off.

This year, on a couple of weeks cruising in April and May, the stove was on from leaving the home dock to returning with no issues.

Good luck with yours. Once over the learning curve you will have nothing but good things to say about your diesel stove.

Edit:
I see your upper helm is enclosed and your chimney rises above it. Yours is already several feet taller than mine.
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Old 10-19-2021, 08:16 PM   #5
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I have been brushing the walls of the combustion container with paper towel and then vacuuming it all out. I didn't think about poking the air holes to ensure they are not blocked.

When you say you heat up the stove to burn the soot off the glass, do you mean you turn up the fan or turn up the diesel? And how long does it take to burn the soot off (minutes or hours)?
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Old 10-19-2021, 08:17 PM   #6
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Soot is from too much fuel or too little air in combustion. I rarely use the damper and have it closed. I only use it in high winds. Closed damper means more air flow into the combustion chamber=less soot.
Today's diesel doesn't burn as well and there are additives that improve combustion. Soot builds in the stove and stack when run long hours at a low temp. Also Red Devil is a product made for cleaning out the stack soot. It makes the stove burn hotter. Available on Amazon and usually marine supply stores.
Burning #1 diesel or kerosene makes less soot. Some people have a separate tank for the stove.

Because of the lousy diesel, I use a fuel additive every fueling to improve combustion, better lubricity, and kill organisms that grow in diesel. And it gives me better mileage.
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Old 10-19-2021, 09:44 PM   #7
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We have a new Dickinson and have had (and solved) this issue on ours. Assuming you have a tall enough chimney, a damper setup properly, etc then this sounds a lot a fuel metering problem.

The fuel metering (carburator) can have a few issues:

1. Make sure there is a fuel return and it's not capped off. Capping it off can flood the fuel bowl.

2. If your stove uses a fuel pump make sure the pressure is set per factory specs. Ours was set WAY too high so lowering the fuel pressure helps.

3. Remove it from the unit, disassemble and make sure you clean the needle and seat well with a Q tip.

4. Perform the calibration process (documented on YouTube) and make sure your fuel flow rate is correct for your stove and fuel (deisel vs kerosene). This is also documented on YouTube.

5. Starting procedure. This part is surprisingly important as even a properly calibrated stove and run super hot if started wrong. We have a fuel pump for ours (pumps fuel up from the day tank, if you ahve a gravity feed pump then skip step a) For us what we do is this:

a. Open the valve for a few minutes to drain any excess fuel from the carb to the bowl (set to 2).
b. Turn on the fuel pump and wait 60 seconds.
c. Turn the meter down to 1
d. Light the stove (we use a paper towl, rolled up into a "stick".
e. Allow the fuel to ignite...I also turn on the fan on low
f. Let that run very low for a good five to ten minutes
g. Turn off the fan and/or turn up the meter.

Honestly, anything over 2 is too hot for me...we generally run it on 1...sometimes 1.5
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Old 10-19-2021, 09:49 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLake View Post
I have been brushing the walls of the combustion container with paper towel and then vacuuming it all out. I didn't think about poking the air holes to ensure they are not blocked.

When you say you heat up the stove to burn the soot off the glass, do you mean you turn up the fan or turn up the diesel? And how long does it take to burn the soot off (minutes or hours)?
Sometimes turning up the fan is all that is needed. Sometimes a little more fuel does the job. I don't think I have had to burn off the window soot in a few years - since a more rigorous poking at the air holes.
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Old 10-19-2021, 10:50 PM   #9
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I have a Dickinson Pacific stove.

-- Have you called Dickinson in Coquitlam, now Surrey, they moved? If not do so. I always found them very helpfull.

Which stove specifically do you have? Do you have the little manual? If not when you call Dickinson ask for it or a PDF.

You mentioned two coils for water heating, you have at least a Pacific, CORRECT?

--Yes, clean out the air holes around the fire box. There are 5 or 6 rings of about 10 holes. I use a piece of iron wire to poke them out yearly. A piece of solid core wire of about 12 ga would do also, If you are constantly running the stove it may need doing one or two more times over the cold seasons.
I scrape the side walls afterward and then use the wee shovel that came with my stove.

While at it use a drill bit to clean the oil entry point at the burner bottom. Soot will build up and clog the entry so it too needs attention, maybe yearly, as you likely won't shut the stove off as often as we do ours now. HAND turn the bit only. A light hand untill you figure out which drill to use.

--I always run the fan on low. I learned years ago it makes a huge difference. It used to soot my upper deck. Many told me if you get everything right you won't need the fan. Well, I guess I failed to get everything right. Anyways, I got fed up looking at the black soot. One day i could see a light black cloud was exiting. I went back in and flipped on the fan and by the time I stuck my head back out the cloud was gone. I did it several more time to ensure it was not just a quirk. Nope, each time I turned the fan off the cloud reappeared and when the fan was operating the cloud was gone. USE THE FAN.

--Stop using the vacuum. It does not need to be that clean. Further as my BIL discovered the soot can go right through the vac. filter to be deposited in a nice , even layer ALL OVER the boat interior. Use a large spoon or get the little shovel if Dickenson still offers it. Or only use the vac when the vac. is outside the boat. Use a spoon or the wee shovel otherwise.

--THe oil control valve may need an adjustment. Which valve do you have? If the stove is old enough you may have the old Singer valve. ALthough a good valve it is no longer repairable and has not been for close to 30 yrs.
THey are quite easily I.D. by their oval body.

The current valves are a rectangular unit made of aluminum. I believe Dickinson is now offering an updated oil control valve over and above even my rectangular valve.

-- I have never calibrated it. Learned long ago to adjust without Youtube so it is not hard. There was no Youtube then. I am not suggesting don't use it, do so, just to point out it is not hard to do. Just need patience and watch the flame. It takes a small allen key to turn it. THere may be a locking allen hd screw on top of the adjusting screw which needs to be removed to gain access to the actual adjustment screw below. THe wee screw acts as a lock so vibration does not change the settings. It only needs to be lightly snugged to jamb.

After stove is warmed you can adjust the flame. Any setting attempts when cold will be useless.

At the 3 setting there is a change in the ramps. The ramp, 2, up to just below the 3 is for the lower heat settings. At 3 and above the ramp is steeper and for the higher heat settings. Adjust them independently. #2 first.
You will see the tips of the two screws and where they contact the two ramps.

--Mine runs at a minimum of 2 which once our cabin is warmed in the off seasons is enough. In winter when we often went out it was up to 3.

-- My stove is gravity fed from the tank on the bridge. I do have a very small Racor on the feed line. Every few years I do have to change the element.

--My DICKINSON oil valve has been adjusted several times over the 35 yrs we have owned the boat.

-- for starting the stove there are several ways. I use about 1 - 2 oz alcohol squirted into the burner bottom. Turn on the oil control valve to 5, light the alcohol with a lighted paper towel twisted fairly tightly which I then drop in to the fuel pool.
Close the lid, turn on the fan to HIGH to force combustion air through the stove AND immediately turn down the fuel control to 2.
Let the stove warm up for 20-30 minutes or so to allow the top and parts to warm. I was told turning the valve up to high can crack the top. Once warmed it doesn't matter.

Another way is to use the little waxy briquette starter cubes cut into small pieces. THe oil valve should be on so a SMALL oil pool is present. Use one of the finger grippers from a tool place to hold the waxy bit and light it. Place the waxy bit into the oil pool, close the lid, make sure the fan is on , the fuel is on low , 2, and wait and watch. If all is well you will hear the flame woofing. As long as it is woofing don't open it.

If you have an actual stove, Pacific, Bering or one of the others, the front face should be removed once a year.

THere is small plate behind the front face secured with 2 screws. Remove the plate and clean out the cavity below the oven. It collects soot and if allowed to build up it has apparently led to some fires. I just scrape mine out. It does not need to be "CLEAN". Just no buildup. I was not aware of this for the first few years and I was amazed at the soot below. Now I sometime wonder if it is worthwhile.

Once you get the stove burning better that cavity may not collect much soot anymore. Still check it though as your use will be heavier than ours.
Also the sight port will stay much cleaner. On 2 it may need cleaning once in a while. At 3 it will be hot enough to stay clean.


Good luck. You have a good unit. It just needs some attention.
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Old 10-19-2021, 11:13 PM   #10
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TO keep the post a wee bit smaller I elected to start again.

+++++++Seems like after a while when I look up the flames are very high, soot has covered most of the glass window and I end up with soot blowing out of the chimney top with little pellets of soot covering my upper bridge roof and surrounding areas. This has happened to me more than once.+++++++

yes the oil control valve needs an adjustment. If this is going on at 2.5 the lower ramp screw is maladjusted. Feeding to much fuel.

++++fan off, the barometric damper about 1/4" open and the fuel value set to 2.5.+++++

THe barometric damper should be adjusted so it is closed when the stove is cold. It should open according to the flue gas volume which occurs as the stove heats.. The intention is to reduce draft at the burner or the draft will pull the flame to low in the burner. Only need the reduced draft as the stove comes to operating temps OR when the top of the stack is over 10 above the stove. If open at startup the air draw into the burner is too weak for the fuel to burn properly. This is also why you NEED the fan. I actually turn my fan on high, as fast as I can, once I put the lid back after lighting. I turn the fan to the low setting once the flue is almost to hot to hold my hand on it. But play with it to see what it does as your installation may be a bit different from mine. You may need fan setting 2 for medium speed always or the lowest setting once the stove is really warmed

++++++++I am somewhat surprised that the flames go so high. The manuals all say don't burn the flame below the burner ring. But when this happens I end up turning the fuel down to as low as it will go before shutting off and the flames are still intense and lapping the bottom of the cast iron stove top.+++++++++

The lower ramp screw is mis set to high. You should NOT get that kind of fuel feed untill you get into 3 or higher on the valve. See adjustment.


++++++++Finally - is there a company that specializes in these type of stoves/heating systems in the Sidney, BC area that I could maybe get out to review the setup?++++++++

THis i cannot help with BUT you have a large service area at Tsehum Harbour.
Start phoning some of the yards and chandleries there, there are lots of them, and ask them if they have or know of someone familiar with these stoves. I expect there will be someone. Even a fisherman as many older fishing boats had/have these units. I would venture that Canoe Cove Marina would have knowledge of someone.
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Old 10-19-2021, 11:29 PM   #11
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One last point about the oil control valves. I assume you do have the rectangular one. At least when I got mine there were markings on the valve indicating the low and the high fuel feed rate. I don't remember anymore what the numbers mean specifically.

When you call Dickinson ask them about that and where to look. If the wrong valve is used it can fail to supply the fuel volume the stove can use OR feed too much fuel .
They are adjusted that way to account for the various stove sizes and heat capacities.. Then comes the finer adjustment of the ramp screws to get YOUR stoves minimum and maximum fuel feeds.



But if for some reason your valve is the wrong unit for your stove then that could also cause trouble.
I suspect you do have the correct valve, it simply is not adjusted properly.


Last two questions:
++++++++My thoughts include:
- maybe I need to get a brush and clean the chimney (is this a regular maintenance thing? If so, where can I buy a brush as Dickerson don't seem to have anything like that on their website)++++++++

I have never cleaned my stack. TO remove the built up soot maybe this is needed in your case. I would simply remove the top pieces of pipe and clean them on the dock with water to flush the soot out. A suitable brush SHOULD be available from a good hardware store. Use a SS or brass wire scratch brush and a long stick tyrapped together to get the needed length.

-- ++++++++maybe I should take the fuel control off and clean it (I did get a video on how to do +++++++++

I would not bother. THe valve is flowing fuel. Try the adjustment process first. DOn't complicate the process yet.
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Old 10-20-2021, 01:38 AM   #12
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Lots of good suggestions above. I used kerosene to start the stove, about a two ounces. The kerosene burns cleaner than the #2 diesel when the burner is cold. I light the stove with a small piece of paper towel wet with a little kerosene. The carburetor is closed to start and opened before the kerosene flames burn down in about 2 minutes time. The preheating helps prevent the soot build up if you were to start with the #2 diesel. I also added fuel additives the help reduce carbon build up in engines -- they help in the stove as well as the engine (Stanadyne) or other products. I had problems with a sticking float and had high flames, as suggested the carburetor needs to function properly to control flame height.
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Old 10-20-2021, 06:06 AM   #13
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I lived with two of these for years. A few things:


The best way I found to start it I found was Sterno canned heat. Roll up about a teaspoon in a square of toilet paper, put it in the bottom lit, and turn on the fuel when it is just about to stop burning.

The second one I bought for another boat didn't work and leaked fuel all over the floor. I took the valve apart, polished the needle valve inside and cut a plastic burr off the float. It worked great after that. Quality isn't what it used to be after production was moved to China.


I had to clean the combustion chamber frequently. Because of modern diesel, I had to use a chisel (by hand) on the bottom. Clinkers fall into the fuel inlet. You can get them out with a large screw.


I used a cheap 12 volt car vac without a problem. Never had soot in the boat.


Soot build up on the window is going to happen in strong winds and as it is getting running well. I just opened the door with a damp washcloth and cleaned it quickly with a paper towel.



Keeping it running made for best performance. Having it going with ports and hatches opened made a beautiful atmosphere inside the boat.
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Old 10-20-2021, 06:23 AM   #14
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I operate a floor mounted unit with the barometric damper just closed (otherwise you are sucking heat out), and it only opens with a large gust (enough to rock the boat) hits.

World wide I am surprised the Singer valve is no longer made , they are very reliable.

I would fire the heater in Oct or Nov and turn it off in May, it operated better on kerosene .No combustion fan installed.

To light it I would turn it on to high , till there was a small (tea spoon sized puddle) in the burner bowl , turn it off and drop in a sheet of burning toilet paper, wait a min or two and turn it back on to low till it was warmed up.
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Old 10-20-2021, 05:59 PM   #15
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Here is a picture of the gizmo that Dickinson sold to fix some "burning issues." We used it for quite awhile, but when switching to more expensive fuel the problem (mainly soot) went away. You have to lift it out, light the stove, and drop it back into the little fire box. I know it helped when we were burning red dyed diesel that came in 5 gallon buckets (our Dickenson was in our yurt). Our distributor had some problems with that diesel, many complaints, and quit selling that brand. We gave up on diesel and went with the expensive stuff as we were using less than 10 gallons a year.

The stove is long gone. Turned out that it was worth more than our yurt when we sold! You're welcome to the gizmo for the price of shipping if you think it might help.
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Old 10-25-2021, 01:13 PM   #16
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Itís normal for the fuel flow to increase as the stove heats up. I just turn mine down after 20 min or so and keep checking it for about an hour. After that it stays stable. You should check the stove after any adjustments until the stove has equalized.
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Old 10-25-2021, 01:27 PM   #17
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I have a Dickinson Newport heater that was giving me trouble. I emailed the Dickinson support link on their website and received a reply the same day. They sent links to their YouTube videos on calibration and cleaning the control unit which were very helpful. They also set up a phone conference with a tech support and he talked me through the process. I found their support to be excellent and my issues with the heater were solved.
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Old 10-25-2021, 01:33 PM   #18
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KingBuffalo's comment reminded me of a quirk.

We ALWAYS open and leave open, on the handle hook, the small door that encloses the oil control valve.

I realized years ago , long enough that it is so automatic I basically forgot, that door needs to be open to allow the heat to escape to NOT warm the control valve.

I had shut the door and the stove got over hot from what I expected. We had it long enough I knew what to expect. The result was as above , the valve heated and fed a lot more fuel. Not dangerous but to much heat.

I would much rather make that adjustment myself.

We also leave a tea towel hanging on the handle for a bit more weight to ensure it stays secure. A small hand towel hangs on the oven door.
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Old 10-25-2021, 01:58 PM   #19
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Kerosene

While im sure the specs are more specific now, i remember reading many years ago that one of the important characteristics of kerosene was that it function properly in wick type devices. That may provide a clue to your solution.
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Old 10-25-2021, 06:35 PM   #20
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I know some people tout kerosene to use in the Dickinson stoves. As I sorted my issues out I didn't need a third fuel so stuck with the #2.

I believe the #1 does burn cleaner but I have oodles of #2 aboard so I decided long ago to sort out my stove and use #2.
Even at startup I DO NOT get sooting with #2 once I figured out to use the fan all the time, in our case on HIGH for the initial startup and first 10=15 mins. , afterwards on the lowest setting once running.

If you wish to use kerosene for the starting that is fine though


So Mr Lake have you made any progress? Do you have any more questions or have we buried you?
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