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Old 08-05-2022, 12:39 PM   #1
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Crane SS cable fail with dinghy 15 feet up

In August of last year, the techs installed a new Warn dc1000 hoist in my crane arm. They rigged about 25feet of 5/16” SS cabling to lift the dinghy up 18feet or so to the upper deck. I asked for Dynema or such, they indicated that the hoist is not designed for synthetic rope and they were worried about chafing inside the Nick Jackson arm.

Initially things worked fine, other the crunching of the SS cable as it wraps & unwraps around the drum and the odd slip of the cable on its down or up. There is nothing to keep the cable tight against the drum so it coils in a disorganized way so its a mess. We try to put pressure on the cable when rolling it in without a load to keep it organized on the drum but nothing really did the job.

Yesterday morning, we are pulling the dinghy up and when its about 15 feet high (almost high enough to pull over the deck), the SS cable snapped and the dinghy made a perfect splash in the water below. Holy smokes 🤯. No one was hurt and the dinghy seems fine. Wow, a bit troubling. The cable snapped in an segment that does not normally spend much time on the drum.

I took off the remaining cable and rigged the hoist with Dynema as thats the only thing I had onboard. Hoping to try again today and then either use galvanized steel cables or find a hoist that is dynema-compatible.

We all heard the gory stories of cables snapping so we consider ourselves lucky.

Just thought I would share and invite any comments.

Streff
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Old 08-05-2022, 01:31 PM   #2
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Guess i should probably quit having my dog ride the dinghy up and down...



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Old 08-05-2022, 01:48 PM   #3
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They replaced the cable with Dynema not because the cable was worn out but because there were LOTS of prickles to grab your skink. So far, no complaints.
Remember to make the cable/Dynema long enough that you can lower the dingy to the ground when you are on the hard.
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Old 08-05-2022, 02:03 PM   #4
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The cable certainly didn’t last very long. Good heads up for others.
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Old 08-05-2022, 02:58 PM   #5
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>>>The cable snapped in an segment that does not normally spend much time on the drum.

Look at the ends of the cable where it broke. Fatigue fracture? Corrosion? Put pictures on here. That should never ever happen.
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Old 08-05-2022, 03:26 PM   #6
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Holy Smokes is right. Yikes.


Understanding the break seems very important. That just shouldn't happen with a new cable.


How heavy is the dinghy, and what is the load rating for the 5/16" cable?
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Old 08-05-2022, 04:09 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Streff View Post
In August of last year, the techs installed a new Warn dc1000 hoist in my crane arm. They rigged about 25feet of 5/16” SS cabling to lift the dinghy up 18feet or so to the upper deck. I asked for Dynema or such, they indicated that the hoist is not designed for synthetic rope and they were worried about chafing inside the Nick Jackson arm.

Initially things worked fine, other the crunching of the SS cable as it wraps & unwraps around the drum and the odd slip of the cable on its down or up. There is nothing to keep the cable tight against the drum so it coils in a disorganized way so its a mess. We try to put pressure on the cable when rolling it in without a load to keep it organized on the drum but nothing really did the job.

Streff
Hi Streff,

Wow, something's REAL fishy about this installation. To my knowledge, there is no such thing as "....the hoist (WARN dc1000, now discontinued) not designed..." for synthetic hoist cable. And if your techs were worried about chafe inside the Nick Jackson hoist, I bet Nick Jackson would be VERY surprised. And if the synthetic chafes, why wouldn't the wire chafe as well? Sounds suspiciously like a botched initial installation to me, particularly if you heard "crunching" of the SS wire as it spooled on the drum.

True that neither wire rope nor synthetic will reliably spool without overrides, unless a constant load is placed on the hoist cable. Furthermore, I sincerely hope your techs rigged your hoist with more than 25' of hoist cable for an 18' hoist! When I rig a hoist, I insist on one full drum layer at maximum hoist height to ensure adequate drum friction to lift full load. Often times this limits the maximum hoist height, as the drum cannot overfill before the lift is complete, but that's all part of the design equation.

Nick Jackson is one of the premier hoist manufacturers in the marine marketplace. Have you contacted them with details of this incident? I strongly suggest you do so, as a failed dinghy hoist is EXTREMELY dangerous.
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Old 08-05-2022, 04:42 PM   #8
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Pics of cable fail

Thanks for the comments. I have attached 2pics of the cable at the break. We were on a mooring buoy (getting ready to head to a marina) when this happened. It was a real happening that surprised folks around.

We were able to lift the boat with quick rigging with my the Dynema I had onboard.

I spoke to another rigger today and they have ways to make the drum dynema-compatible. And they indicated they have a standard of putting 5 layers of dyne material due to slipperiness, regardless of desired length.

I will be taking the boat to them on Monday. So hopefully, installing a new bigger hoist and improving on the rigging.

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Old 08-05-2022, 04:48 PM   #9
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I don’t see any photos…
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Old 08-05-2022, 04:55 PM   #10
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Attaching pics again. Dinghy weighs 735, I measured cable and it’s 3/16”.. I was told WL over 1100, breaking load over 3500.
Attached Thumbnails
40AF5066-13D1-4695-862D-D5345B7FC8F8.jpg   E607D036-A6B7-467B-987C-45D74A0B8811.jpg  
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Old 08-05-2022, 04:58 PM   #11
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I am going from a 1000# warn hoist to the much beefer 1200# commercial hoist. The opening in the arm will need to be widened a bit and adaptor plate lowered to allow for the new hoist, with loosing the arms integrity.
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Old 08-05-2022, 05:06 PM   #12
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My winch has a weight on the cable above the hook so that the cable rolls on smoothly when rolling it in without the dinghy attached.
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Old 08-05-2022, 05:16 PM   #13
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I do have a heavy SS donut (removed to take photo) that puts weight when rolling cable in but it still does not pack tight. I has a Rule winch which has a spring on the drum to keep the cable in place.

I took it off to install a hoist to avoid the exact thing that happened.

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Old 08-05-2022, 05:51 PM   #14
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Almost same thing

My Nick Jackson davit had also been remotored and new dynema line just before we bought Nordlys in January of this year. The boat was also in the PNW. (Near Tacoma)—I mention this as “perhaps it was the same outfit that re-rigged yours?)
I did end up talking to NickJackson directly and he was very clear. Our dinghy was dropping perhaps 12 inches with a horrible bang and wobble as we hoisted it. Scared the bejeebers out of us as this was our first crane—previously we had NJ stern Davits. Our crane had been rigged with a Warren Winch and dynema but the diameter that was 1/8 inch larger than what Nick recommended. Bigger was not better. We installed the thinner line (dental floss for an elephant??). Idon’t want to say the actual size as each situation is unique (again—“talk to Nick J).

With the thicker line even with a 10 lb SS weight it didn’t lay right on the drum. So far the correct size line is working well (at least the three times we have hoisted the dinghy).
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Old 08-05-2022, 06:28 PM   #15
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Thank you for the input Nordlys. Our first 4000# warn winch always had 1-2 drops of the dinghy 4-8” with a loud bang. We got used to it. I installed a 3600# Rule winch.. same thing happened and it struggled to pull the dinghy. I agree with you, no matter how heavy a donut was added, the cable or dynema never spooled perfectly.

Talked and exchanged emails with Nick and also with Warn winches. Warn advised against a winch for lifting (Nick said that it should be fine).. Warn directed me to a hoist. The techs installed the warn hoist and it has similar dinghy loud drops but less often. Only 3 cable drum wrap layers can be installed on the hoist to allow it to have the power to lift the dinghy at max height. This had functioned ok for a year but the crunching sound and the odd drop were always present.

I will have a new outfit to do the rigging this time and see.

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Old 08-05-2022, 06:49 PM   #16
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This says the WLL for 3/16" stainless is only 713lbs. Breaking strength is 3500lbs, but still...


https://www.e-rigging.com/three-sixt...tainless-Cable
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Old 08-05-2022, 07:47 PM   #17
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I switched from SS to Dynema on my last boat (Bayliner 4788). I disassembled the crane and cleaned up and faired the wheel as it was not very smooth from having SS grinding on it for 20+ years. Dynema performed perfectly and I was careful to examine for chafe every season. No signs.

My current boat has a Jack Nickolson crane with SS wire. There are no fishhooks on the wire, and other than the occasional slight slip when a coil reseats I have had no problems. First sign of fishhooks on the SS and I will switch to Dynema after fairing the wheel.
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Old 08-05-2022, 08:16 PM   #18
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Query. Did the cable ever jump the pulley and get pinched? something started that break.
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Old 08-05-2022, 09:45 PM   #19
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You first mentioned that the wire was 5/16", then stated in another post you measured it at 3/16". . . . which was it? And does you invoice state 5/16"? If so, they owe you a refund. 3/16" is way too small IMHO . . .
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Old 08-06-2022, 08:02 PM   #20
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Finally spoke to the rigging outfit. Their records show that they planned on installing 7/32” cable. The max recommended for the hoist but rigged 3/16” instead. Now, I can see that 3/16” is not near enough. Glad it happened where and when it happened.
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