Convince DW that Propane is OK or Give Up?

[psneeld]

And like CMS and I pointed out...just because propane was involved doesn't make it the fault of a properly installed system.


It like saying an outlet that meets code and is perfectly safe is the fault of a fire that was really started by a legal, but overloaded extension cord.


Usually buy the time a propane tank blows in a boat fire...the people are long gone and the boat is probably a goner anyhow....and again...that's the fault of the propane container.... and at that point any pressurized container aboard is a bomb to a point. At least propane tanks are supposed to vent long before from what I understand.


http://www.propane101.com/explodingpropanetanks.htm


Propane Explosions 101

Propane tanks do not explode. They do not implode and nor do they rupture or come apart on their own. In fact, bringing a propane tank to the point of "explosion" is a tremendously difficult and time consuming task that's not as simple as most people think. Many people believe that a propane tank "explosion" can occur with the slightest of ease. This is not the case whatsoever and people should understand that a propane tank, operating under normal circumstances will not explode or rupture. Safety devices and mechanisms are in place to prevent explosions, accidents and propane tank ruptures or breaches. Just like any other hazardous material or activity, human error is a primary factor in preventing or contributing to any type of accident, however serious in nature.

 

[dhays]

We have no propane on a boat. Don't have a reason to go through the process of doing it right. The most common reason of needing to run the generator to cook, we don't have as the generator is already running for the refrigerator and freezers, for laundry, for hot water, and for air conditioning or heat. If we're on the boat, not docked, the generator is highly likely to be on.

Yes, that I believe is the biggest reason that there are a lot more all electric boats in the 35-50 range in the more southern latitudes. Electricity is already being used for other appliances and there generally is plenty of generator capacity to cook with. In that situation, I would also have an all electric boat.

 

[BandB]

Usually buy the time a propane tank blows in a boat fire...the people are long gone and the boat is probably a goner anyhow....and again...that's the fault of the propane container.... and at that point any pressurized container aboard is a bomb to a point. At least propane tanks are supposed to vent long before from what I understand.

The "explosions" I'm aware of were after the fire had nearly destroyed the boat so the additional damage to that boat didn't really matter. However, any boats close were impacted and observers were scared by it.

Leading item for "explosions" of this nature, some forms of aerosol cans and they can become missiles. Far more likely than propane or than oxygen tanks simply because the container isn't as well built.

 

[O C Diver]

I wonder if people who are afraid of propane on a boat, fear traveling in a car that runs on gasoline? While I don't keep track, I'll bet I see at least one car fire or the remnants of one every year. Do they stay in hotels or houses with gas heat? Will they eat at a restaurant that cooks with gas? It's kind of like that whole bananas on boats thing.

Ted

 

[BandB]

I wonder if people who are afraid of propane on a boat, fear traveling in a car that runs on gasoline? While I don't keep track, I'll bet I see at least one car fire or the remnants of one every year. Do they stay in hotels or houses with gas heat? Will they eat at a restaurant that cooks with gas? It's kind of like that whole bananas on boats thing.

Ted

There are people fearful of about anything you can name as everything has some risk to it. We have extremely close friends/family that is a couple in their lower 60's and they're scared of boats. They will not go out on one under any conditions. It all dates back to an incident they witnessed at a summer church camp 50 years ago. No one helped them through it then, and by the time they were older, they just learned to live with it.

 

[LaBomba]

I removed the old stove and oven from our boat 2 years ago since it did not have any flame out protection and replaced with a new ENO. We do open the tank valve by hand, not far away each time we use it and close it when done. Propane also has a strong smell intentionally added to it so that leaks, even minimal will be detected quickly. While travelling with a group this summer, all electric boats, everyone would come to our boat in the morning for coffee so no one had to start up their noise makers. We would never think of going electric.

 

[alormaria]

What is a "DW"?

 

[CPseudonym]

Dish Washer?

 

[RT Firefly]

Ohhhh...You're gonna burn for that one Mr. CP...

 

[DavidM]

I have rarely been able to convince my DW that something is safe if she believes otherwise. At least not until she hears it is safe from one of her friend's at the gym ;-).

David

 

[koliver]

While I have no problem with propane on a boat, you might save yourself a bunch of trouble by installing an Origo alcohol stove. It is very safe and it doesn't require running the generator.

Kenyon makes a combination electric / alcohol stove if you want both.

My wife actually likes our Origo.

When I saw a 26' sailboat burn to the waterline, I asked what was the cause of the fire. Again, when I saw another boat burned up, I asked what was the cause.

In both cases, it was the alcohol stove. It is the least safe cooking appliance you can get on your boat. The problem is the invisible flame. On many boats, the flame can be 24" tall and still you won't see it, until the headliner or the curtains start to flame.

I won't have alcohol cooking or heating appliances on my boat.

I am very pleased with propane. I have a properly installed setup, and know of very few failures of such. Far more boat fires are caused by electrical connections getting overheated than any other cause, far fewer Propane fires than other fuels.

 

[Bob Cofer]

We have a 4 burner Princess propane stove that has worked flawlessly. We also have a single burner induction cook top from one of the box stores that works flawlessly but needs a full sine wave inverter, generator or shore power to work. If your other half doesn't want to use propane fire up the genny and use the induction, if you're out solo use the propane. Its a $50.00 solution to a thousand dollar problem.

 

[Fletcher500]

I have never had propane on a boat, but I deal with propane systems a little in regards to fire protection on shore side applications.


As noted, your boat is probably much more likely to have a fire from electrical origin, than from the propane, if the system is installed and maintained properly.


On the other hand, if the entire boat is ablaze, jump off before the missile explodes.

 

[Joebad]

We use our propane stove daily. Our oven is electric. I wont cook on an electric stove. Bottle is enclosed outside, solenoid cutoff, jointless line.

 

[rwidman]

If you can find an incident where a boat fire was caused by propane, you probably found an incident where the owner or a previous owner did something stupid with the propane system.


Read boating forums long enough and you'll find plenty of advice on how to do propane installations or repairs in a very unsafe manner.

 

[tadhana]

After many years as tech VP of ABYC I am aware of 0 fires or explosions attributed to a properly installed propane system. The USCG and insurance industry files confirm this. The statistics do show that alcohol stove fires are approximately 90% of all stove fires and even the non pressurized stoves have been the cause of fires.

The stats simply don't back up her fears... If you really want to scare her tell her that 55% of all boat fires are electrical in nature then have her go hunt for the numerous unsafe areas of the installed AC & DC systems, which 99.5% of boats have..........

The last one heard about was a boat in the keys (sounds like it was a derelict boat) the owner awoke in the morning, smelled gas and lit a cigarette . The propane system was completely and totally out of compliance The tank was sitting loose in the cockpit the hose ran into the cabin to a stove there was no solenoid, the owner did not shut the fuel off at the tank and the hose was chaffing where passing through a fiberglass bulkhead. NOTHING about this met the safety standards. The fault of propane? NOPE, not at all, but that is what the "stats" will show..
If someone can point me to a vessel where propane caused a fire, and the system was installed to ABYC standards, PLEASE DO.... .

 

[tadhana]

I doubt that presenting the financial advantages to propane will help allay the fears, but: We live aboard and use our propane stove, oven and grill every day. On average we get 3.5 to 4 months out of a 20# bottle. Our cooking costs works out to $1.00 per week. With an electric stove I will bet your cooking costs will be more that $1.00 per day.

 

[High Wire]

My wife did not like our propane stove at first. The reason was that she would get a big poof when lighting. A simple correction of procedure order all that was needed. Light the lighter first then turn on the gas! Now she loves the propane stove.

 

[Nomad Willy]

"Darned" wife, "Damned" wife or dishwasher wife ....
This guy is in so much doo do propane probably has nothing to do w anything now. Of course wife's usually don't see anything posted here but this one just may. My wife "dear wife" is even a member but she rarely if ever looks here much less posts. I told her about WifeyB but the notion to emulate WB fizzled faster than the notion. Good luck to the OP.

Craig wrote;
"Those convinced against their will are of the same opinion still." Love it Craig!

 

[Capt.Bill11]

I have rarely been able to convince my DW that something is safe if she believes otherwise. At least not until she hears it is safe from one of her friend's at the gym ;-).

David

Ha, true that !

 

[Fletcher500]

This reminds of a thread that went out of control on another forum concerning the dangers of swimming around your boat when its plugged in, or the genny is running. Someone was electrocuted while in the water a few years ago, and all of a sudden its a major hazard. Meanwhile there are 5 thousand guys under the water each day cleaning the hulls of plugged in boats. Yes, I am sure someone can find an article noting someone was electrocuted - but its a very rare event. Boating, and life in general have inherent hazards. We manage them, and we may still end up getting hurt. Fear the ride to the marina in an automobile. Now that is where we all have some good odds of being seriously hurt or taken out.

 

[tadhana]

The risk of Electric Shock Drowning (ESD) is very real, but it only applies to boats plugged into shore power in FRESHWATER. It is not an issue if the generator is running. It is enough of a real issue that the NEC, NFPA, and ABYC have addressed it in safety standards. If divers fail to unplug the bot they are working on, shame on them. Most divers I know disconnect shore power before working under a boat. A diver was killed by elecric shock in Cocoa FL last April 2016.

 

[alormaria]

My wife doesn't like eating aboard so we go out to dinner.

She doesn't like swimming in the river so we use the pool at the marina.

 

[Lou_tribal]

You may tell her that even if not totally safe it is safer than starving

 

[Fletcher500]

The risk of Electric Shock Drowning (ESD) is very real, but it only applies to boats plugged into shore power in FRESHWATER. It is not an issue if the generator is running. It is enough of a real issue that the NEC, NFPA, and ABYC have addressed it in safety standards. If divers fail to unplug the bot they are working on, shame on them. Most divers I know disconnect shore power before working under a boat. A diver was killed by elecric shock in Cocoa FL last April 2016.

I capitulate.

 

[Nsail]

The risk of Electric Shock Drowning (ESD) is very real, but it only applies to boats plugged into shore power in FRESHWATER. It is not an issue if the generator is running. It is enough of a real issue that the NEC, NFPA, and ABYC have addressed it in safety standards. If divers fail to unplug the bot they are working on, shame on them. Most divers I know disconnect shore power before working under a boat. A diver was killed by elecric shock in Cocoa FL last April 2016.

I must be missing something. Isn't Cocoa FL. saltwater?

 

[BruceK]

Seasalt007, how`s it going? Something like this,?

 

[CPseudonym]

Propane fuel to electrocuting divers and everything in between.

 

[Northern Spy]

My wife doesn't like eating aboard so we go out to dinner.

She doesn't like swimming in the river so we use the pool at the marina.

Hopefully she waits a half hour after eating before swimming...

LOL

 

[BandB]

Propane fuel to electrocuting divers and everything in between.

View attachment 60753

Wifey B: That's unusual, removing the bottoms before the tops, but definitely an attention getter.