Clean out Vacuflush Vacuum Tank

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

We have been using Scott single-ply for nine-plus years in both our Vacuflush heads and have never (knock on wood!) had a TP clog past the toilet bowl discharge. We have had a couple at that point, primarily because our daughter thinks "more is better" when using TP. But those clogs are an easy fix in that I wait a couple hours and then use a coat hanger to poke the clog and it always goes away. Then I flush with plenty of water, which pushes the TP through to the holding tank.

But as I said, the Scott single-ply has never clogged the hoses, bellows, or the duck bills, so I think it's very good to use on Vacuflush systems.

Same here. Single ply Scott TP is what we use too, with lots of water. I also instruct users NOT to roll the TP up around their fingers.

 

[catalinajack]

That's good news, Peggie, thanks! Yep, you sent 101 and I mostly memorized it... just didn't see detailed info on TP.









Thanks, but I have to admit I can't hardly think of any less comfortable brand of TP... so I'm hoping to avoid stuff like that...









Yuck!







-Chris

Wow, so many different opinions. I prefer Scott single-ply over any other brand, on the boat or otherwise.

 

[ksanders]

All the cabinetry and the fact that Formula tied down the discharge hose every 18”. Then it looks like it goes outboard of the starboard fuel tank. So pretty much all of it is inaccessible except for maybe the part behind the refer.

The new 1” Saniflex is 1.375 OD and with the old hose having an ID of 1.5” that would give me 1/8” gap for the new hose to slide inside the old hose. I have been playing it out in my mind and it may be the only way to get the new hose in place. It isn’t at the top of my project list, not even close, yet. But given the number of issues people have with Vacuflush heads even just the routine maintenance and the place the vacuum pump is located I will not be able to get to it to do the work. So I have been thinking about changing it out before I have to do the work.

I am LAUGHING!!!

Why??? Because I had to do that job on my Bayliner 4788!

There is a HUGE area in a 4788 where you can see darn near every inch of hose. You can take out a under sink locker to get to one end of the hose. You can also see the gigantic tie wraps they used to tie the hose down.

But... You Cannot get to those tie wraps unless you crawl into places so small a little guy would barely fit into. But unfortunatly I am not a little guy.

 

[Comodave]

At least you can see it. I can’t even do that.

The PO hit something with the bow rail and broke 2 stanchions loose from their bases. Trying to get access to the nuts on the inside was a pain. One was easy just cut the vinyl headliner and there were the nuts. The other one I had to end up dismantling a couple of cabinets and still had to cut the top inside one of them out. Then the welder said he couldn’t get here this year…

 

[BruceK]

Single ply TP only really works if you double fold it,and then it`s 2 ply.

 

[Comodave]

It will still break down better than 2 ply.

 

[Bmarler]

The routing of the existing discharge hose is pretty straight but just behind everything. It goes straight, pretty much, aft to the vacuum tank and then across the boat to the holding tank. There really isn’t a much better ot shorter route, really no other way to run it. But I don’t want to have to tear out all the cabinets to run the new one and cut the ties on the old one off. Hopefully I can find a plumber that has a camera that we can run down the discharge hose to see if it takes any radical turns or has any blockages that would stop the new hose. I won’t even get to it this winter, too many other projects first.

i'm not trying to discourage you from trying this, but,
i'm well versed in pulling things through conduit, and any twists or turns add a huge amount of resistance. flexible conduit is a lot worse, and many times needs to be laid out straight to get things through it. i've run poly air and water lines through it on many occasions and it's challenging at best. these conduits are not always metal lined, some are plastic, with similar mechanical properties of sanitation hose.
1/8 inch sounds like a fair amount of freeplay, but we calculate a percentage of fill for a conduit and it's far less than what you're thinking.
you should get a couple of sections of hose like the ones you're dealing with and see just how difficult it might be. don't forget the lube too, it can make a huge difference.
hopefully it won't be an issue for you, but my hunch is that it will be difficult at best.
i'm not familiar with the installation requirements of the marine elegance heads, is it a bad idea to use the existing larger hose?

 

[Comodave]

I know it may not work. But the current hose is buried and really inaccessible. The reason I didn’t want to use the 1.5” hose is twofold, one it is larger so it will take more water to flush the poop into the tank and two the vacuum generator is in there so I would have to remove it and splice the hoses together. Splicing them would add a fitting which will be a trap, so to speak, that will tend to collect stuff and cause a blockage. Unfortunately Formula says they tied the old hose down every 18” so chances are that I will be unable to use it to pull a new hose in. If I was able to cut all the ties then maybe I could pull the new hose with the old one, but I doubt that I can get all the ties cut. Some are behind the fuel tank and some behind all the cabinetry. I was just trying to think outside the box and use the old hose as a chase. Don’t know if it will work or not. There could be lots of crud built up in the old hose. I will try to find a plumber with an inspection camera to check it out before I try it. May be able to tell how many turns it has in it and if it is clean enough to even give it a try.

 

[Bmarler]

I know it may not work. But the current hose is buried and really inaccessible. The reason I didn’t want to use the 1.5” hose is twofold, one it is larger so it will take more water to flush the poop into the tank and two the vacuum generator is in there so I would have to remove it and splice the hoses together. Splicing them would add a fitting which will be a trap, so to speak, that will tend to collect stuff and cause a blockage. Unfortunately Formula says they tied the old hose down every 18” so chances are that I will be unable to use it to pull a new hose in. If I was able to cut all the ties then maybe I could pull the new hose with the old one, but I doubt that I can get all the ties cut. Some are behind the fuel tank and some behind all the cabinetry. I was just trying to think outside the box and use the old hose as a chase. Don’t know if it will work or not. There could be lots of crud built up in the old hose. I will try to find a plumber with an inspection camera to check it out before I try it. May be able to tell how many turns it has in it and if it is clean enough to even give it a try.

i see, i was wondering about flow through the smaller hose being higher velocity or something.
good luck with it, i hope it works out ok for you.

 

[Comodave]

It might get more velocity since it is a smaller diameter but that isn’t why I was going for 1”. Just that it takes less volume of water to get the poop to the tank and not sit in the hose.

 

[wkearney99]

You can also see the gigantic tie wraps they used to tie the hose down. But... You Cannot get to those tie wraps unless you crawl into places so small a little guy would barely fit into.

I sympathize, as I have never been small enough to fit into any of those places.

I have resorted to using silicone (rescue) tape to strap a utility knife to a boat pole, and used that to saw through a zip tie that was way out of reach. I tried using long-reach side cutters but even with my long arms it was JUST out of reach.

I keep a set of long reach tools onboard, just some cheap ones from Harbor Fright. End and Diagonal (side) cutters, and needle-nose pliers (both straight and bent). Used them several times for various how the F am I supposed to reach THAT problems.

 

[HTurner]

I sympathize, as I have never been small enough to fit into any of those places.

I have resorted to using silicone (rescue) tape to strap a utility knife to a boat pole, and used that to saw through a zip tie that was way out of reach. I tried using long-reach side cutters but even with my long arms it was JUST out of reach.

I keep a set of long reach tools onboard, just some cheap ones from Harbor Fright. End and Diagonal (side) cutters, and needle-nose pliers (both straight and bent). Used them several times for various how the F am I supposed to reach THAT problems.

Extended handled tools are lifesavers or should I say frustration savers.

 

[AlanT]

I am LAUGHING!!!

Why??? Because I had to do that job on my Bayliner 4788!

There is a HUGE area in a 4788 where you can see darn near every inch of hose. You can take out a under sink locker to get to one end of the hose. You can also see the gigantic tie wraps they used to tie the hose down.

But... You Cannot get to those tie wraps unless you crawl into places so small a little guy would barely fit into. But unfortunatly I am not a little guy.

HA! Been there. Done that!
~A

 

[OldDan1943]

Single ply TP only really works if you double fold it,and then it`s 2 ply.

I'm laughing because my ex-wife complained about single ply. She never consider folding it to make 2-ply. She'd rather complain.

 

[DD788Snipe]

I would also suggest industrial strength cleaning vinegar. Let it soak for 24 hours in your pump and accumulator tank to dissolve the urea scale. You might have to change our the duck bill valves in the pump. Vinegar is an amazing cleaner and deodorizer.

 

[HeadMistress]

Sorry, but although distilled white vinegar is indeed an amazing cleaner, you can let something soak in it for a week and it won't accomplish a thing unless it's replaced every 45-60 minutes, 'cuz that's only as long as it works...making it too labor intensive to be practical and the reason most people claim it doesn't work.

Soft rubber (joker or duckbill valves) left to sit and soak in vinegar will swell and distort....which the reason why vinegar should never be left sitting a toilet bowl.

However, weekly doses of about an undiluted cupful of it flushed all the way through a toilet discharge line will PREVENT buildup. It must be followed after no longer than an hour with at least a quart of clean FRESH water.


--Peggie

 

[BruceK]

Vinegar gets a good rap, and bleach has some reputation as a mould destroyer, so I considered mixing the 2 in a spray bottle to attack mould spots.
Something made me do a quick search, here`s what I got:


"Mixing bleach and vinegar creates potentially lethal chlorine gas. If you notice a pungent smell after mixing household cleaners, you should immediately leave the area and try to breathe in fresh air."

So,it`s a

 

[OldDan1943]

I would think that bleach would kill all the good guys in the tank.

 

[BruceK]

I would think that bleach would kill all the good guys in the tank.

If the bleach + vinegar didn`t kill you first. "Drifty" but I`d wondered about combining the two for mould generally, the search result surprised me, it might save someone a nasty experience.

 

[HeadMistress]

I keep a set of long reach tools onboard, just some cheap ones from Harbor Fright. End and Diagonal (side) cutters, and needle-nose pliers (both straight and bent). Used them several times for various how the F am I supposed to reach THAT problems.

Surprised you didn't include long handle tongs in that list...I have one that's 12" below the handles, 16" including them, and can't count the number of times that it's saved the day for me. If I'm after something too small or flat for the tongs to pick up, I wrap the ends in tape...any tape that's handy. Sticky side out of course.

--Peggie

 

[HeadMistress]

You don't want to mix ammonia and bleach either...that creates ammonium chloride gas.


Bottom line: Best not to combine ANY cleaning products unless you're wearing a HAZMAT suit and a respirator. Better yet, don't use any chemical household cleaners--especially bleach, pine oil cleaners and toilet bowl cleaners--on anywhere on a boat.


--Peggie

 

[OldDan1943]

I dont keep chlorine bleach on the boat. I do use the non-chlorine bleach, which I wonder if it works at all.
I do use white vinegar.
The only thing that my be consider "bad" is oven cleaner.....

 

[CaptainScott]

So our Vacuflush toilets have been flushing slowly and I discovered an accumulation of toilet paper in the vacuum tanks (not the holding tank) where water is accumulated for the vacuum pump to discharge into the holding tank. Does anyone have a suggestion for a chemical that will dissolve the old TP? Or another method I can use to clean out the tanks?
Yes we are using marine TP and using plenty of water. I think it is just a long accumulated mess that needs attention. Thanks

I ran into the same problem. I don't think the TP is the problem. My assessment is that particulate matter builds up and solidifies while the unit is sitting unused. Then, the vacuum generator can't suck it up. I would suggest putting a hose in the inlet to loosen the crusty build up so the vacuum pump can pump it into the holding tank. It will probably get a little messy, but not bad.

Further, I took the whole system out to inspect it because replacing the bellows and duck bills didn't fix it. Once it was cleaned out it worked again. Not a huge job, but I believe putting a hose it the inlet would have done the job without taking the system apart. Scott

 

[sum escape]

Old thread. A powdered RV toilet tissue dissolver solution was added to the tank, sat 24 hours and the vacuflush cleared the tank. Didn't have to disassemble anything. It was definitely TP build up as I visually inspected by temporarily removing the waste inlet hose. Hope this helps someone else.

 

[tiltrider1]

Good follow up information.

 

[HeadMistress]

It wouldn't build up at all if you run a full bowl of water through the system daily. The flush water flow is too wimpy to fill the hoses, so waste and TP build up in them, the pump, and duckbills too. VF owners are responsible for at least 75% of toilet problems posted in net boating forums and at least 90% of the problems are the result of using too little water.

I've written a piece I call "VacuFlush 101" that explains how it works (an amazing number of owners think they know but don't) and how much water it really needs to remain trouble free. I'll be glad to send it to any of you who want it...I'll need your email address to do it 'cuz there's no way to attach anything to a private message.

--Peggie

 

[HeadMistress]

Good follow up information.

It wouldn't build up at all if you run a full bowl of water through the system daily. The flush water flow is too wimpy to fill the hoses, so waste and TP build up in them, the the vac tank, pump, and duckbills too. VF owners are responsible for at least 75% of toilet problems posted in net boating forums and at least 90% of the problems are the result of using too little water.

I've written a piece I call "VacuFlush 101" that explains how it works (an amazing number of owners think they know but don't) and how much water it really needs to remain trouble free. I'll be glad to send it to any of you who want it...I'll need your email address to do it 'cuz there's no way to attach anything to a private message (now known here as "conversations" (which makes no sense 'cuz what else are forum discussions if not conversations??"

--Peggie

 

[Comodave]

I was just looking at this old thread and saw that I never put an update in it about what I did to get rid of the VF and replace it with a ME head.

I cleaned the whole discharge system using OC Divers concoction. Then scoped the 1.5” discharge hose and it was surprisingly clean. So I measured the needed length of discharge hose. I needed 36’ which was less than the original route that Formula had run. I took the refer out and cut the old discharge hose at the front of the refer cabinet and also the back. I took the new 1” SaniFlex hose and made 4 cuts on each end lengthwise. Removed 2 of the flaps and bolted the other 2 together to make a cone shape on the end. Used 1/4” line attached to the bolts to pull the new hose. Slathered the hose with wire pulling lubrication. Then pulled the new hose while a friend pushed it in. 3 of us ran the entire 36’ length in 57 minutes. Amazingly easy. No disassembly require of either the cabinets or the old discharge hoses since I used the old discharge hose as a conduit for the new discharge hose.

By using a 1” discharge hose it only takes about 1.5 gallons to completely fill the hose instead of about 3.5 gallons if I were to have used 1.5” hose. So it takes dramatically less water to flush the hose clean and get the poop slurry to the holding tank. And since the ME head is a macerating head there aren’t any chunks but rather a slurry.

Absolutely love the new system. I even installed a bidet on the new head so no need for TP.