Change rule sump to gulper?

[Dougcole]

I'm having a problem with my Rule Sump box pump air locking. I'm pretty sure that the cause of the issue is that the outlet hose doesn't have a continuous uphill run out of the boat. But the hose is inaccessible, so correcting this would mean cutting holes in floors.

I've tried drilling a small hole in the hose about an inch from the outlet of the pump inside the box. That worked great for a year or so, but now it is air locking again. I'm getting tired of messing with it.

So I'm considering going to a whale gulper IC pump system.

Here's my questions.

1. Since the Gulper is a diaphragm pump, it shouldn't air lock, correct?

2. I have three hoses draining into the current box. One from the shower 1 1/4", and one each from two A/C condensation drains, 3/4" each. Whale makes a system that has two inlets but not one with three. What if I put the two A/C lines on a Tee and attached it to one of the inlets, and attached the shower drain directly to the other inlet?

3. My other thought is to use the current rule box, leaving it in place, but pulling the pump and float switch out of it. I'd then install a gulper with a single inlet next to the box. I'd run a hose from the outlet of the box to the inlet on the Gulper.

4. I'd also be up for trying any other genius (and cheaper) solutions to fix the current setup.

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance.

 

[caltexflanc]

Whale makes good product. If I were in your position, I'd give the folks at Depco Pump a call and get their advice and whatever gear solves your problem at a fair price.... actually a cheap price if you account for the good customer service. IMO, the Gulper in the Rule box sounds like a good solve, but why not talk to an expert that has all the varous solutions at hand?

 

[rochepoint]

The only thing that went too our sump box was the bathtub/shower drain. We removed that line and plumbed it directly you a Gulper pump 20 years ago and it has worked great for just pumping it overboard......

 

[Dougcole]

The only thing that went too our sump box was the bathtub/shower drain. We removed that line and plumbed it directly you a Gulper pump 20 years ago and it has worked great for just pumping it overboard......

Do you have it set up on some sort of float or sensor switch? Or do you just turn it on/off manually before and after your shower?

Thx.

 

[hmason]

I replaced 2 shower sump pumps with Gulpers. One is on a float switch and the other is simple on and off. Since they can run dry without damage the set up doesn’t mattter much. My wife thinks they are one of the greatest improvements we’ve ever made on the boat; no more hair clogs etc. I think they will pump pebbles.

 

[Dougcole]

I replaced 2 shower sump pumps with Gulpers. One is on a float switch and the other is simple on and off. Since they can run dry without damage the set up doesn’t mattter much. My wife thinks they are one of the greatest improvements we’ve ever made on the boat; no more hair clogs etc. I think they will pump pebbles.

How did you set up the float switch?

The gulper won't fit inside the rule box, but I have room to mount it beside it. Maybe I should just get the basic gulper 220 or grouper without the IC switch, mount it next to the old rule box, plumb the outlet from the rule box to the gulper, and wire the gulper to the float switch inside the rule box.

 

[hmason]

How did you set up the float switch?

The gulper won't fit inside the rule box, but I have room to mount it beside it. Maybe I should just get the basic gulper 220 or grouper without the IC switch, mount it next to the old rule box, plumb the outlet from the rule box to the gulper, and wire the gulper to the float switch inside the rule box.

Wire the float switch the same way it is wired to the rule pump.

I plumbed our shower directly to the pump. There is no sump box. The float switch is in the shower itself in a depression that the Rule pump sat in. I used the basic 220.

 

[HenryD]

Go with the Whale Gulper...one of the best changes I made to the boat. I used the Grey Water IC version. I mounted the pump in a closet. I cut out the shower sump and glassed the floor flat with a household shower drain feeding the IC Yellow cup. Had a sink feed the IC cup also. It has worked for 8 years with zero maintenance. (damn I hate to write that).

 

[rochepoint]

Do you have it set up on some sort of float or sensor switch? Or do you just turn it on/off manually before and after your shower?

Thx.

It is operated by a switch in the wall beside the bathtub/shower, easy peezy ....

 

[ranger58sb]

I'm having a problem with my Rule Sump box pump air locking. I'm pretty sure that the cause of the issue is that the outlet hose doesn't have a continuous uphill run out of the boat. But the hose is inaccessible, so correcting this would mean cutting holes in floors.

What are the symptoms associated with an air lock on the sump pump?

-Chris

 

[Dougcole]

What are the symptoms associated with an air lock on the sump pump?

-Chris

An airlock happens when a bubble, usually caused by a dip in the exhaust line, gets caught over the impeller of the pump. The pump spins but doesn't pump any water.

That's my unsophisticated explanation anyway.

 

[Knot Salted]

Is there any reason not to use a gulper vs standard type “Rule” pumps?
Sounds like they are more reliable.

 

[HenryD]

Whale Gulper Grey IC is probably more than twice as expensive in hardware.
On the positive, it does not get clogged by hair or most anything.

 

[ranger58sb]

An airlock happens when a bubble, usually caused by a dip in the exhaust line, gets caught over the impeller of the pump. The pump spins but doesn't pump any water.

That's my unsophisticated explanation anyway.

Hmmm.... thanks.

I asked because sometimes we get a little water in our forward bilge, and I haven't yet pinned down the source. Sometimes I think it might be that shower/AC condensate sump box overflowing... but I haven't caught it in the act yet (nor found any forensic evidence suggesting it's the cause).

-Chris

 

[BrianSmith]

Based almost entirely on this thread, I replaced our shower box with a Gulper Grey IC with the dual manifold inlet. Just did it yesterday, but so far, I'm liking it, and I don't expect to ever have to service it (remove hair and gunk), and it's 100% automatic.

What I had was one bathtub/shower draining to a Jabsco pump that you had to turn on when showering, and a Rule shower box with the float switch and little pump inside handling another shower, 3 sinks, and 3 AC drain pans. I didn't like either one of these - the Jabsco wasn't automatic, and the Rule would clog, or just get nasty inside the box and have to be cleaned out once a month or the pump or the float would fail. (And if you weren't careful, and you sucked too much water out of the box when servicing it, the pump would airlock, and then it was a mess to get it re-primed).

The shower box was fed from a "manifol" made of a bunch of 2" PVC and various T's and fittings going into it, from a shower, three sinks, and three AC condensate drain pans. A 1" line came out of that and into the shower box. (This could be a solution for whoever lamented that Whale makes a 2-inlet manifold, but not a 3-inlet: make your own manifold to combine as many inlets as you need to end up with just 2 outlets).

I bought the Gulper 2-inlet manifold IC version, and ran both the tub hose and the multi-drain manifold hose to it. Then, of course, from the 2-inlet manifold to the Gulper pump. I tested it with both showers and one sink going full speed, and it can handle it.

CAVEAT: you need some space for this installation, especially vertical space! Although Whale doesn't tell you this in their documentation, you have to have enough "drop" in the system so that:
1) The 2-inlet manifold is perfectly upright (you can't lean it over a little to make up for lack of vertical space, or it seems to think that it always needs to run).

2) There has to be a bit of a downhill run from the outlet on the bottom of the 2-inlet manifold to the inlet on the pump itself. At the very least, this run has to be vertical. Strangely, in the only illustration of the installation in the installation manual, they show the pump being ABOVE the manifold! I tried this, and either I did something wrong, or it just doesn't work. What water remains in the hose between the manifold and the pump, after the pump stops, drains back into the manifold, and then the manifold thinks it's time to pump again... ad infinitum.

3. You have to have a constant uphill run from the outlet of the pump to the top of your siphon break (or in my case, to the sea chest where the water actually goes overboard). If not, you get a very loud "gulping" sound as the duckbill valve in the pump outlet flaps in the air in the outlet tube.

I would say you should have 10" from the lowest portion of your inlet line to the surface on which you're going to mount the pump. I've got about 7", so my manifold-to-pump line doesn't slope downward, but it's close enough to verical that it almost drains completely after a pump cycle, which gets enough water out of the manifold that it doesn't detect any more water (the only water left is in the outlet tube, which is below the sensor). I used 90-degree elbows all over the system to save vertical space w/o kinking the hose, with the benefit that all of my hose runs are almost perfectly straight.

The manual says to use 3/4" or 1" hoses to plumb this - which completely overlooks the fact that the inlets and outlet on the manifold are 1" OD, and there's no way in hell you're going to put a 3/4" hose on them! Do yourself a favor and use all 1" ID hose (the more flexible the better, if you're in tight quarters like I am) for everything.

Lastly, it does make a little more noise than the Rule shower box pump (although no more than the Jabsco shower pump). If you're installing this close to your sleeping quarters, keep that in mind, if little noises bug you.

 

[bgillroy]

Good write up Brian ... We converted both showers and AC condensate to gulper happy with results ...

 

[BrianSmith]

My pleasure! I've benefited so much from TF, it feels good to be able to contribute for a change.

 

[Dougcole]

Thanks for the hep Brian. I just finished installing my gulper IC with the dual manifold. Like you, I did a bit of a DIY manifold in one of the inlet lines, in that I combined two A/C condensate drain lines with a T and ran it to one of the inlets. My shower uses the other inlet.


I particularly appreciate the tip on the elbows, I wasn't planning on using them, but my install would not have worked without them. I have 6 elbows all together and a heap of hose clamps, but it works great. Not too loud and keeps up with the shower running at full blast.


BTW, if anyone else is considering this, I found the pump for over $100 cheaper on line than at West, even with my Port Supply pricing. They matched the price. It was around $240.

 

[BrianSmith]

Doug - yes, the elbows are essential unless you have a LOT of vertical space for the installation. Glad I could be helpful.

 

[Mako]

What is it about the design of the Gulper that makes it clogless so no hair screen is required in the shower sump?

 

[Dougcole]

The pump will pass most anything. Whale has a video on their site of it passing a tube sock. Hair doesn't scare it all.


Now that I have lived with mine for a few days, I do notice that it is loud. Doesn't bother me when showering, but the A/C condensate kicks it on every 30 to 60 minutes and it "gulps" two or three times in the shower drain. I stuck a wadded up paper towel in it and it got much better. I might just keep a plug in the shower drain except during use. Other than that, I'm very happy.


Much better than having the rule air lock and pump water all over the floor under the steps.

 

[BrianSmith]

The pump will pass most anything. Whale has a video on their site of it passing a tube sock. Hair doesn't scare it all.


Now that I have lived with mine for a few days, I do notice that it is loud. Doesn't bother me when showering, but the A/C condensate kicks it on every 30 to 60 minutes and it "gulps" two or three times in the shower drain. I stuck a wadded up paper towel in it and it got much better. I might just keep a plug in the shower drain except during use. Other than that, I'm very happy.


Much better than having the rule air lock and pump water all over the floor under the steps.

That's the only thing we've noticed, too - it's a bit loud. We hear it mostly when we're on the flybridge, because the sink up there is one of the sinks that drains to the Gulper. We can really hear it gulping if we're up there and it runs. But we don't run our AC very much, so the pump doesn't usually run when we're relaxing on the FB, because no one is doing anything to make it need to run.

 

[caltexflanc]

It's a diaphram pump, which tend to be louder and do have the ability to pass more stuff.

One reason diaphrams are preferred for movement of waste of all types.

 

[toocoys]

Ok, based on suggestions I am going to replace my forward sump box with a Gulper.

My sink, and shower both go to one drain via PVC "T" that was previously installed, however my AC condesation line runs into that sump box as well. So I have two inlets, and one out line.

Do I just let my AC condensation line drain into the bilge or should I do something else?

 

[Bacchus]

Ok, based on suggestions I am going to replace my forward sump box with a Gulper.

My sink, and shower both go to one drain via PVC "T" that was previously installed, however my AC condesation line runs into that sump box as well. So I have two inlets, and one out line.

Do I just let my AC condensation line drain into the bilge or should I do something else?

I would not give up a dry bilge...
Whale makes a dual inlet version that should handle your correct situation.
https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|51|2234226|2234234&id=1612504
I'm thinking of doing the same replacement and have looked these. The other option is to add their collection box similar to most shower dumps but the pump is one of these mounted external.

 

[JohnEasley]

We also have a Whale Gulper plumbed directly to our master shower drain and activated by a switch on the cabinet next to the shower. It works great but the gulping noise is so loud we find it annoying. There is a Shurflo Blaster plumbed exactly the same way on the guest shower drain and it's much, much quieter. We have purchased another diaphragm pump for the master that has a reputation for being a lot quieter and will be removing the Whale Gulper. Guess we'll keep it around as a spare.

 

[Pau Hana]

We replaced the aft shower drain box with the Whale Gulper IC several years ago, and would never go back. Yes, it does make noise while in use, but only when in use.

It’s completely tolerable.

 

[Mako]

Running condensate into the sump is a great idea and helps to keep the system flushed from all the hair and funk from the shower.

 

[toocoys]

I would not give up a dry bilge...
Whale makes a dual inlet version that should handle your correct situation.
https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|51|2234226|2234234&id=1612504
I'm thinking of doing the same replacement and have looked these. The other option is to add their collection box similar to most shower dumps but the pump is one of these mounted external.

I found that dual inlet thing last night.

Does the Gulper have enough power to "lift" the water up and out? I've got about 3' of lift or more between the sump box and the through hull. This is why the 800gph pump that the Rule sump box has isn't able to push the water out.

 

[rochepoint]

A Whale Gulper has a 3 metre lift and a 3 metre head.
A great pump, our has been in service for 20 years.