Bow or Stern thrusters?

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Our twin propped AMS came with a bow thruster.

We use our thruster only seldom but it makes maneuvering so much easier if it gets tight.

Of course can an experienced helmsman do almost every maneuver just using prop and rudder.
Might be we aren't experienced enough but we don't want to miss the thruster...


best regards / med venlig hilsen
Wadden
 
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Codger2 said:
No, you have too many, Mark! All you need now is a "clown" to go with all those balloons. :whistling:(Just kidding!)
Most people put a lot of fenders at their bow where they're really ineffective. (IMO)
Click to expand...

My round bow and stern fenders are for when approaching/leaving a dock at an oblique angle. Since the photo was taken, I moved the stern fenders closer toward the stern.
 
From a practical point of view

Installing a bow thruster in your wooden hull, while not impossible is impractical. This the area where your planking is under the greatest stress and your bow stem and keel join, usually with a knee. I wouldn't do it on my boat. A bolt on stern thruster however has it's benefits compensating for prop walk in reverse. I have had some experience using a single with a stern thruster and given a choice of only one thruster on a single I would take this route. I had a bow thruster on my last boat and found it of limited use. My current boat weighs 66,000lb without thruster on either end and I have no desire for a thruster.
 
Congratulations on your classic restoration, Starside.

This is just my way of looking at it, but enjoying the adventure of getting to know your boat and learning how she responds in a variety of new situations is more important than endless introspection on how you handled it last time.

Or worse, how the dock audience think you handled it.

In the marina bumps and scratches and minor embarrassments are inevitable and common to all skippers whatever their experience. I would urge you to keep practising and learn the difficult manoeuvring stuff with the boat as is before making any decisions about modifications.

Finally, after you are totally comfortable with your boat and have a feeling for what you actually must have or might like, bow thrusters on timber boats (like mine) are entirely practical if correctly installed by an experienced timber shipwright.

As always, beware of advice that speaks in absolutes.

Not much is absolute on the water and I reckon that knowing your boat and staying flexible in your attitude is the path to maximum enjoyment.
 
Thank you, Eagle.
Excellent advice!
 
Provided you keep it constructive (not always easy),while you work out what went wrong last time so as not to repeat it, could make next time better.
I recall Starside has an unusually long reverse between parked boats, I`m thinking an early move to stern thrusters could be best. But, new to marinas from a swing mooring, I`m on a learning curve too and very interested in advice.
 
I have had boats without thrusters and my current boat with a bow thruster. If both bow and stern thrusters is as much better than no thruster to having just a bow thruster, I am not sure I could stand bow and stern thrusters, as I would have a permeant smile on my face.
 
Anyone have any data on how much drag a bow thruster adds to a displacement hull?

Understandably it depends....but anyone add o e and notice a speed per rpm diff?

I never have read of a negative so I am guessing either too low to notice or too low to care.

Low speeds require power bursts to turn many boats of all shapes and sizes.....
 
psneeld said:
Anyone have any data on how much drag a bow thruster adds to a displacement hull?

Understandably it depends....but anyone add o e and notice a speed per rpm diff?

I never have read of a negative so I am guessing either too low to notice or too low to care.

Low speeds require power bursts to turn many boats of all shapes and sizes.....
Click to expand...

No, I have not seen any scientific data on this but I have seen estimates as high as half a knot for the tunnel type bow thrusters at cruise speed on a displacement hull. A planing boat might lift the thruster out of the water eliminating drag. The argument for retractable bow thrusters is it minimizes drag. Would be surprised if any thruster manufacturer really wants to fess up to drag.
 
psneeld said:
Anyone have any data on how much drag a bow thruster adds to a displacement hull?

Understandably it depends....but anyone add o e and notice a speed per rpm diff?

I never have read of a negative so I am guessing either too low to notice or too low to care.

Low speeds require power bursts to turn many boats of all shapes and sizes.....
Click to expand...

We had our old 43 ft'er for 5 years before we added a bow thruster. We did not notice any performance difference. And that was a light boat, I would have expected if there was a difference to notice, it would have shown up.
 
No Mast said:
We had our old 43 ft'er for 5 years before we added a bow thruster. We did not notice any performance difference. And that was a light boat, I would have expected if there was a difference to notice, it would have shown up.
Click to expand...

Thanks...I had always assumed because I had never heard differently that a properly faired tube and slowly driven hull wouldn't really feel any effect.

I would think a 1/2 knot or so diff would be the godsend to selling stern thrusters and most manufacturers would start with them rather than start with bow thrusters.
 
Starside...
Thought I replied a day or so ago but don't see it???

First - nice job on the refurbishment - certainly a great looking boat!

I've had both single and twins w/o thrusters - recently went back to a single but the one we bought had both bow & stern and handling is a pleasure. Ive thought about it and wonder whether I would have gone through the trouble & $ of adding either if it didn't have it to start... not sure... I think I'd do exactly what you are doing... try it and see if practice gets you to where you are comfortable.
I think having thrusters has given me the confidence to use the boat more w/o any doubts and by having the thrusters (to fall back on just in case) has allowed me to practice more w/o using them. I have gotten better w/o them AND like having them in case conditions warrant the assist and/or I encounter unanticipated conditions w/ wind / current.
Like many things - now that I have them I'd hate to give them up... makes life easy and pleasurable...
I assume you have looked at the "bolt on" bow thrusters - no first hand experience but seems like they would be worth a look given your relatively slow speed.
One suggestion I would add is that I have found that in some situations (home port dock) it is more beneficial to add protection on the dock than fenders on the boat - how about a rubber roller for the dock corner you mentioned??
Rubber strips, rollers, fire hose, etc... can help avoid damage from a bump.
 
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dhmeissner said:
Hi StarSide,

Good luck as you proceed to learn. I picked up on your comment about glassing the bottom of your classic boat. Here is a thread with useful information in that regard:
glassing a carvel planked hull (again)

Cheers
Click to expand...


Thanks for this info. Starside is only glassed below the waterline & it was done by another owner over 10 years ago.

My understanding is that glassing old boats requires great skill, but when done right, it is a life saver for the boat & ensures longevity. In fact, many boat yards have said that my glass job is 'the best they have ever seen.'

I had the same reservations as you did when I first got her. I thought it was hiding something. But then I found out that Starside was in a museum restored by a famous boat builder & designer, Rand Spaes. His restoration was top-notch of all his boats. Honestly, I was lucky to get her.

At my present yard, they inspected the glassed bottom & found no flaws. They said it was an exceptional glassing job & that I was lucky to have had it done by a pro who knew what he was doing. Many glass jobs are done incorrectly but when done right, they offer a woodie stability & longevity. I got the Monell fasteners for her refastening based on that knowing she will survive my lifetime & the next generation if she's properly cared for.
 
Bacchus said:
Starside...
Thought I replied a day or so ago but don't see it???

First - nice job on the refurbishment - certainly a great looking boat!
...
I think having thrusters has given me the confidence to use the boat more w/o any doubts and by having the thrusters (to fall back on just in case) has allowed me to practice more w/o using them. I have gotten better w/o them AND like having them in case conditions warrant the assist and/or I encounter unanticipated conditions w/ wind / current.
Like many things - now that I have them I'd hate to give them up... makes life easy and pleasurable...
I assume you have looked at the "bolt on" bow thrusters - no first hand experience but seems like they would be worth a look given your relatively slow speed.
One suggestion I would add is that I have found that in some situations (home port dock) it is more beneficial to add protection on the dock than fenders on the boat - how about a rubber roller for the dock corner you mentioned??
Rubber strips, rollers, fire hose, etc... can help avoid damage from a bump.
Click to expand...


You hit it on the nail for me here. I plan on practicing first for a few months but I don't want to not cruise bc I'm still scared of hitting things. The bolt-on thrusters seem like the right fix, if I go that route. For now, I'm going to practice, practice, practice. :)
 
The bolt-on stern thrusters from companies like Cap Sante seem like well-made products that fit and perform very well.

The "bolt on" bow thrusters I've seen all look like Rube Goldberg, Mickey Mouse sort of affairs that are incredibly vulnerable to damage and are potentially damaging to the boat's hull in the process.
 
The stern thruster on my boat is similar to the one from capsante. It has cowls on both ends. I agree with Marin on the external bolt on thrusters. The one I've seen on a boat in my marina did not look very substantial. The housing was made out of aluminum and badly corroded.
 
Always considered the rudder and propeller to be the stern thruster.
 
psneeld said:
Anyone have any data on how much drag a bow thruster adds to a displacement hull?

Understandably it depends....but anyone add o e and notice a speed per rpm diff?

I never have read of a negative so I am guessing either too low to notice or too low to care.

Low speeds require power bursts to turn many boats of all shapes and sizes.....
Click to expand...

We installed a bow thruster last year. I can't tell any performance difference. It does make a big difference in tight quarters handling and my confidence in handling the boat. Which means I enjoy the boat more, and in my book that is what it is all about.
 
Do you know "Jet Thruster"? Maybe an easy and fast solution


Sergio "Alemao" Sztancsa

Sent from my iPhone using Trawler Forum
 
I have had a bow thruster on a Mainship 34 (82). Boat has too small rudder located too far forward so handling w/o thruster left much to be desired. I currently have a 38ft Present (Tiawan) with a stern thruster. Both singles. I like them both, giving the edge to the stern thruster.

Generally you can put the nose, initially, where you want it without a thruster then you can hold it there with a thruster with forward way on. Thrusters are a gift from God...I love em. The stern, after having both is my preference. I am suspicious of external bow thrusters, looks like susceptible to damage. External stern much less so.

As stated by another poster, stern goes port, bow goes starboard and visa versa with a bow or stern thruster. Either way you will just love your new thruster, upon first use.
 
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Thanks Mule!
 
Alemao said:
Do you know "Jet Thruster"? Maybe an easy and fast solution


Sergio "Alemao" Sztancsa

Sent from my iPhone using Trawler Forum
Click to expand...


That Jet Thruster looks interesting. Thanks for the tip.
 
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