Bleeding air - solo

[MurrayM]

This thread is about bleeding air from an inboard hydraulic steering cylinder by yourself.

I was told by a local marine mechanic that you can attach a hose connecting the two open bleeder valves, instead of having a second person at the cylinder who opens and closes the valves one at a time to let the air out of the system.

I've read that even though this is counter intuitive, it does work (eventually) after turning the wheel back and forth many times.

A few questions;

1) do you keep turning the wheel back and forth until there's nothing but steering fluid in the hose connecting the bleeder valves, or

2) are you finished when there is air trapped in the middle of the hose, but fluid is above the bleeder valves, and

3) if it does work, have you got any tips?

 

[bayview]

An old trick for bleeding anything is to submerge a hose connected to a bleeder outlet in fluid while working the system. Air bubbels out but only fluid is sucked back in.

 

[C lectric]

An old trick for bleeding anything is to submerge a hose connected to a bleeder outlet in fluid while working the system. Air bubbels out but only fluid is sucked back in.

I had to reseal my steer cylinder a bunch of years ago. Flushed all the old fluid out and repaired some leaks while I was at it.

That's what I did. I used a CLEAN 1 gal plastic gas jug that was filled with the fluid., maybe 3 litres. A hose was attached to the bleed air vent of the pump and then into the jug so the hose end was covered fully.

Lots of wheel turning but it worked. If you do it without the deep jug you will get oil splatter all over the place. Shallow bowls do not help. As air is purged it must travel out the same hose you are using to fill the system and that air is under a bit of pressure and it will blow oil all over the place.
Don't ask.

The bleeding was not perfect but more than good enough to operate the boat safely. As we used the boat the normal roll and pitch worked the remaining air out. I just had to check the oil level after each of several runs untill the level stopped dropping.

 

[MurrayM]

Do you have a hose from each bleeder valve into the bottom of the container?

I'm thinking a clean plastic milk jug type container with the hoses put vertically down the 'neck' might do the trick and keep splatters to a minimum.

 

[C lectric]

Yes, each bleeder should be led into the jug.

My system is different from yours. I bled the steer cylinder separately and then bled/refilled the whole system from one hose attached at the upper most pump vent.

But yes to two lines to the jug or you most likely will also have a big mess. Just be sure the jug is confined. If it tips ???.

 

[MurrayM]

Thanks

 

[MurrayM]

One last question...since the cylinder is out of sight from the helm in the lazarette, do you know the cylinder is filled when it can be 'felt' at the helm, and when the rudder stays at hard over port & starboard when you go to check?

Here's a fellow bleeding an outboard steering cylinder by himself using two hoses from the bleeder valves into a container method;

 

[SlowGypsy]

Not going to be much use to you here, because I am not sure I understand the problem?
When I installed my hydraulic steering, I just followed directions, and installed a small plastic reservoir connected to the cylinder. It sits well above the cylinder, and is used to fill the system with hydraulic oil. Any bubbles of air simply rise up in the connecting tube, and I keep the reservoir half full at all times. I never have to bleed the system.
Is there a problem doing it this way? It has been operating fine now for ten years, but if it is trouble just waiting to happen, I'd sure like to know!

 

[C lectric]

Different systems have different needs. Many do not have a separate reservoir from the steering pump itself. Some do have a separate reservoir from the steer pump, some also have a pressurized reservoir separate from the steer pump.

Usually problems arise in these systems because some thing leaks allowing oil leakage out and air leakage in resulting in the oil level dropping unnoticed untill air gets into the pump itself with a loss of or goofy steering.

Assuming a good installation and good fluid they will last for many years.

Keep an eye on the reservoir level , make a mark of a high and low, and also for signs of leakage anywhere and you will have a warning that service/repair is needed.

 

[Lepke]

The air/oil mix can come thru the hoses with some force. It could blow the hoses free. I would tie or tape the hoses to the jug you are using.

 

[MurrayM]

Check. Beware of tipsy, farty hosers.

 

[C lectric]

Murray,


With yours I suspect you have a two hose system so it will be different. Yes, crank the wheel back and forth. You should feel the difference between easy cylinder travel and end of the stroke. With the bleed screws open it won't be a hard stop but there should be noticable change in wheel resistance.

Do it a couple times and then check the fluid level at the filler and the cylinder bleed bottle. You definitely do not want those hoses to uncover or you will suck air. The filler is important because as you purge that filler bottle level will drop.

When you think it has been done enough close the bleed screws and turn the wheel hard over and hold it under pressure. If you still have air then the wheel will be spongy and may continue to turn relatively easily.

When purged of air the wheel will stop and MAY turn ever so slowly.

A good run with some pitching and rolling should finish the job as that allow any remaining small air bits to work its way back to the steer pump where it should purge from the vent.

 

[MurrayM]

So...being blissfully unawares and a knuckle dragging lout when it comes to mechanical things, I decided to give the "connect the bleeder valves together" method a try today.

It worked. Go figure!

Here's what went down;

- hooked up a clear fill tube at helm
- connected bleeder valves with another clear tube
- opened bleeder valves, a bit
- moved rudder by hand to straight ahead position
- started pouring oil at helm & turning wheel both ways, many times
- kept pouring until no more oil was going in
- closed bleeder valves
- turned wheel lock to lock to work out air, many times
- added a bit more oil to keep it visible in fill tube
- let it rest occasionally for small bubbles to work their way up

Best theory I have is that the helm pump was moving oil in a loop through the system, but because the bleeder valves allowed less oil to pass than was being moved by the pump, that is what filled the cylinder. So I guess the air went for a ride and escaped at the helm.

Basically, it's a head scratching mystery...

 

[Lou_tribal]

well done! I wish I had bleeder valves Tomorrow will be my bleeding day, hope it will goes as smooth as it went for you!

L.

 

[MurrayM]

Went for a 2 hour romp today to charge up batteries / heat engine and the fluid didn't drop a millimeter. So far, so good

How's it going, Lou?

P.S. Was born in Chicoutimi but moved out here before kindergarten.

 

[Lou_tribal]

Went for a 2 hour romp today to charge up batteries / heat engine and the fluid didn't drop a millimeter. So far, so good

How's it going, Lou?

P.S. Was born in Chicoutimi but moved out here before kindergarten.

Let say it was correct but a serious mess First thing I did is to fill my cylinder with hydraulic oil so there was no air in it. Then I first kept the line disconnected from the cylinder and pumped oil from the flybridge station until oil was flowing through the line down at the cylinder. Then reconnected the lines and did the level in the pump. Then same in the lower station. Where was the mess? When I pumped oil from the flybridge, it was not the cleanest (read it was messy and spilled oil). That is when you enjoy having some rolls of shop towels

Anyway it is done now but I want to had two bleeder valve at the cylinder it will be easier. One more thing in the list.

L.

 

[MurrayM]

A couple rolls of shop towels and some spilled fluid is way cheaper than paying someone to do it

 

[Lou_tribal]

A couple rolls of shop towels and some spilled fluid is way cheaper than paying someone to do it

Indeed! I was fortune to have my wife head down under the bed to tell me on the radio that oil was flowing At one point I was tempted to grab a cold one without telling her and just leave her in her hole just to check how much patience she has but thinking about it I was scared for my life .

Note: BC is a long way from Chicoutimi! Ever been back here since?

L.

 

[MurrayM]

Indeed! I was fortune to have my wife head down under the bed to tell me on the radio that oil was flowing At one point I was tempted to grab a cold one without telling her and just leave her in her hole just to check how much patience she has but thinking about it I was scared for my life .

Note: BC is a long way from Chicoutimi! Ever been back here since?

L.

Good call on not testing your wife's patience. Wives have looooong memories!

Have I been back to Chicoutimi? Nope. Haven't been further east than Calgary. One day...

 

[Lou_tribal]

Good call on not testing your wife's patience. Wives have looooong memories!

Have I been back to Chicoutimi? Nope. Haven't been further east than Calgary. One day...

I went to Chicoutimi twice, it is a nice little city. I would like to go back there by boat though, the cruise on the Saguenay must be wonderful, landscape are really nice there.

L.