Bilge Pump Replacement

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firstbase

firstbase

Guru
Joined
Nov 6, 2016
Messages
1,644
Location
United States
Vessel Name
Black Eyed Susan
Vessel Make
Grand Banks 42' Classic
Looking to do something a little different with my bilge pumps to get the frustrating bottom gallon or so that is ever present out of the bilge. I know, looking for where it is coming from but going to put a pump as low as I can get it in addition. I see "AMarine" and "Seaflo" pumps. any comments on good bad better/worse than the standard Rule models? Going to go with water sensing/auto as not much room for a float switch. How dependable are these pumps that check for water every 2 minutes or so? Any down side to that?

This will be my third pump down there. Have large ones but they are up a little in the bilge. Comments appreciated!
 
Unless the builder put a low point sump to house a small last drop pump,

its easier to find all the drips and leaks than constantly vacuum the bilge to dry.
 
There is a low point sump, see pics below, and that's where I want to put the pump. As you can see the current pump is located a couple of inches up from the sump and it takes a couple of gallons in order to get that high up and that couple of gallons stays there and sloshes around. The first picture shows the water overflowing the sumps and the switch has not come on yet. Even when I get the leaks found and fixed there will still be some water getting in and, even though it will take much longer, I still have the same issue.
 

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The auto pumps are notoriously unreliable. One solution is a diaphram pump mounted nearby with a hose into your targeted area. My solution: leave it alone. If it's not filling your bilge, then no big deal. It's a boat, water happens.

Where does that black hose shown go? An air conditioner or sink?
 
I'm not familiar with those pumps but if they are the type that turns on every couple of minutes to detect water, Rule makes an excellent one. It is commonly used on commercial boats. The draw back is that in a small boat you'll hear it and it will drive you nuts. Might not be a problem in your boat.

As has been said, a diaphragm pump, turned on manually, will do a better job of getting the last drop.
 
If you check out Munster Simms engineering in Bangor County Down Northern Ireland the make a fitting that sit flat in the bilge and takes out all the water.
Google them and check it out.
I hope its helpful to you.
 
caltexflanc said:
The auto pumps are notoriously unreliable. One solution is a diaphram pump mounted nearby with a hose into your targeted area. My solution: leave it alone. If it's not filling your bilge, then no big deal. It's a boat, water happens.

Where does that black hose shown go? An air conditioner or sink?
Click to expand...

Thanks for taking the time to respond. Yep, water is water and it is a boat. Just want to decrease it where I can. The black hose is actually the manual bilge pump hose. Pumped from inside a step next to the inside helm. That's how we completely empty it now.
 
HopCar said:
I'm not familiar with those pumps but if they are the type that turns on every couple of minutes to detect water, Rule makes an excellent one. It is commonly used on commercial boats. The draw back is that in a small boat you'll hear it and it will drive you nuts. Might not be a problem in your boat.....
Click to expand...

The other drawback is, they will drain your battery if you don't have a constant charging source.
 
Why not move the switch to the bottom of that sump, you'll get more out.

That looks like grey water or shower water to me.
 
I bought one amarine 750 and one seaflow 3000 as spare parts and also by curiosity to check how built there were. Must admit I was nicely surprised. The amarine is a perfect clone of the attwood I have aboard. These little pump have a built in float switch. The amarine was 30$ where the attwood was 115$...
The seaflow one is a sturdy very heavy and strongly built one. Again was surprise by the quality that I was not expecting.

L
 
Xsbank said:
Why not move the switch to the bottom of that sump, you'll get more out.

That looks like grey water or shower water to me.
Click to expand...

Thinking about moving the manual pump hose out/up to the side. Seems nice that it is at the bottom of the barrel but when I think about it....why does that matter as long as I have some way of emptying it all out? Maybe that would free up enough room for a switch and pump.

The reason the water looks like shower/grey is because I was washing out the bilge that day and this is what remained. Has some soap in it....
 
Aha!

A manual pump on a 42 footer is pretty pointless, except to use it the way you are now. If you really had a failure and needed that pump for help I bet you would fall over after pumping for 10 minutes. A manual pump would work if you had a large crew; not one of the best ideas in the marine world.
 
Agreed and others have pointed that out as well! It does serve a purpose right now but it's a pain in the butt to pump. If I haven't been to the boat in a few days it takes about 25 up and downs to empty the bilge. I think I may have 30 after a good nights sleep. But that's it.
 
I guess my knowledge of bilge pumps is underwhelming. If I moved the manual pump hose up and out of the sump could I mount a switch in the bottom of the sump that turns on a pump that has a hose down to the bottom rather than drawing water in through its base? That would keep it below the top of the sump or so it would seem. My other issue is the backflow from the current pump and hose. It has to pump up hill a few feet and when the pump cuts out there is enough water that flows back down that it almost fills up the sump. So even when it is "empty" it isn't.
 
Recently, there was a thread on this topic. Worth reading if you can find it. I don't believe there is a good solution available, and what does exist is expensive. Still, for some people, myself included, the thought of even 1/4" of standing water in the bilge is enough to cause a sleepless night. It takes a ton of work, and won't be permanent, but the solution I settled upon was to eliminate every water source. Fortunately, my drip less seals drip zero, so it wass achievable, but in my case it required dealing with the condensation from two ice makers and 4 different HVAC units, as well as gunnel mounted rod holders and boat cleaner overspray (the result of me telling them I wanted all the hatch gutters to be clean. But, at the end of the day, there is nothing more satisfying than finding that each of several bilges are bone dry.
 
firstbase said:
I guess my knowledge of bilge pumps is underwhelming. If I moved the manual pump hose up and out of the sump could I mount a switch in the bottom of the sump that turns on a pump that has a hose down to the bottom rather than drawing water in through its base? That would keep it below the top of the sump or so it would seem. My other issue is the backflow from the current pump and hose. It has to pump up hill a few feet and when the pump cuts out there is enough water that flows back down that it almost fills up the sump. So even when it is "empty" it isn't.
Click to expand...

Sure you can mount a diaphragm pump controlled by an auto switch. Pick one with a small diameter hose and keep the pick up hose short to minimize back flow. Turn the pump on manually and let it run until it sucks air once in a while to get even more water out.

These are suitable pumps made by Jabsco.
Jabsco > Xylem Flow Control - Let's Solve Water.
 
You might want to try a Water Witch switch with your diaphragm pump. They run about 15 seconds after the water drops below their bottom sensor. Be sure to get one that will handle the current needed by your pump.
https://waterwitchinc.com/bilge-switches/
 
Those small Rule are horrible. Owned at least 3 that all failed after the warranty ended. One arc'd and melted a hole in the red top. One had the shaft seized. One the power lead fell out of the motor.
I also had one of the 2000 gph versions that also ran every couple minutes. That one worked perfect for the 5 years I owned the boat. Unfortunately it won't get all the water out.
If you want to the most water out reliably, use a motorized diaphragm pump. The hard part will be finding a switch that will trigger off at such a low level without hanging up.
 
firstbase said:
Going to go with water sensing/auto as not much room for a float switch. How dependable are these pumps that check for water every 2 minutes or so? Any down side to that?
Click to expand...

When my first stage bilge pump failed, the technician replaced it with an auto/sensing pump. The second stage (large volume) pump is still a Rule with float switch so I have a side-by-side comparison. I vote for the float switch unit....here is why.

1) Before I leave the dock, I go below decks to inspect everything (engines, filters, etc) including my pumps. I just lift the float switch, and this confirms function of both switch and pump. For the auto-sensing unit, I have to climb out of the ER and use the manual override on the pump control switch at the helm. No way to trip it with my finger.

2) The auto sensing pumps can start cycling, usually due to debris in the sensor. Just a small amount of debris causes the sensor to mis-read and they start cycling (despite an empty bilge). You can set the duty cycle length, but they default to a 2 minute or so backup when the sensor is triggered and so they keep coming on relentlessly. Yes, you now know its time to clean unit, but in the middle of the night, you probably need to go down below decks and make sure you are not taking on water.

3) The frequent cycling is annoying at night. My pumps are below the master cabin. When they cycle, I wake up !! If they keep cycling, I don't fall back asleep. I boat to enjoy the peacefulness of a quiet anchorage. Sleep is an important part of the trawler experience.

4) If you can't figure out the problem in the middle of the night, you resort to turning off the pump (at the master switch). Not a good idea, especially on a stormy night. You are defeating an important safety feature at the worst time.

5) Useless cycling is a (small) but unnecessary battery drain.

I never had these problems with the float switch units. Disclaimer: I have no experience with diaphragm pumps or the other equipment discussed on the Forum.

Just my 2 cents.
 
A conventional pump with a Johnson Ultima switch would overcome the " Pump for a minute or 2 in case there might be some water" programming.
 
Spottsville, you may not be aware but Whale pumps are proudly made in Bangor, County Down in Northern Ireland.
The company was born out of Munster Simms engineering and has a long history of providing reliable, affordable pumps and systems for marine use.
The beauty of Whale pumps is IF you have a problem, or a request you can lift the phone/email and speak direct to a responsible person in the factory.
 
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